electric scooter/skateboard laws

[BazP]

As there has been loads of discussion on here regarding the speed laws for pedelecs I was wondering if anyone new anything regarding scooters /skateboards.
I recently saw a kids electric scooter with a throttle reviewed on TV and a legal speed limit of 25kph was mentioned. I wonder if the occasional foot on the floor makes it a pedelec? Also, these seem to be aimed at riding on the pavement, or, everyone I've seen was on the pavement, (sensibly in my opinion).

 

[Nealh]

Electric ones are not illegal to sell, only to use in a public place.
It is up to the user to abide by local traffic laws/usage.
If they were limited to 4mph/ 6kmh then they would be legal I believe but then sellers wouldn't sell many.

 

[flecc]

As there has been loads of discussion on here regarding the speed laws for pedelecs I was wondering if anyone new anything regarding scooters /skateboards.
I recently saw a kids electric scooter with a throttle reviewed on TV and a legal speed limit of 25kph was mentioned. I wonder if the occasional foot on the floor makes it a pedelec? Also, these seem to be aimed at riding on the pavement, or, everyone I've seen was on the pavement, (sensibly in my opinion).

The foot on the floor doesn't make it a pedelec. To be one a bike has to have working pedals and a seat/saddle, plus adherence to the 250 watt power and 15.5 mph assist speed limits and power from the motor only while pedalling.

Even for pedelecs, pavement use is only permitted at low speeds when the rider is genuinely in fear of the traffic at the time.

One US company has been engaged in trying to get our laws on powered pavement scooters changed, but don't seem to be making any progress. Knowing all our previous rulings on the use of powered pavement vehicles, I don't think they have any chance.
.

 

[Michael Price]

My worry about powered devices like hoverboards and unicycles is their stopping distance. If they are going to be allowed to go at 15 mph in areas where there are people walking then sooner or later someone will walk in front of one. If a device going at 15 mpg stops quickly (or tries to) but the rider has no handlebars then the rider is just going to shoot forward - which is a problem.

Personally I think there needs to be a specification for allowable electric transport devices - nothing specific to the design but based on controllability, stopping ability and probably other stuff.

The current ebike regulations would be a start - maybe creating a few different categories with different max speed - the slowest being not allowed on a road and the fastest being the same as an ebike - or maybe include a higher speed ebike with identifying marks only allowed on roads

It would require a lot of thinking about and researching - and predicting what the future will bring

 

[flecc]

Personally I think there needs to be a specification for allowable electric transport devices - nothing specific to the design but based on controllability, stopping ability and probably other stuff.

The current ebike regulations would be a start - maybe creating a few different categories with different max speed - the slowest being not allowed on a road and the fastest being the same as an ebike - or maybe include a higher speed ebike with identifying marks only allowed on roads

There's already a lot of law for them. For example all the following are exempt from being considered motor vehicles under type approval law:

Self balancing vehicles like the Segway.

Vehicles without a seat, i.e. pavement scooters.

Two and three wheeled vehicles with a seat height of 540mm or lower. i.e. low recumbents that don't meet pedelec law.

Vehicles with a maximum design speed at or less than 4 mph (6 kph).

What some of these don't have though is permission for use in public areas, so that is what's needed.

In addition, mobility vehicles are permitted 4 mph on pavements and 8 mph on roads.
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[Michael Price]

There's already a lot of law for them. For example all the following are exempt from being considered motor vehicles under type approval law:

Self balancing vehicles like the Segway.

Vehicles without a seat, i.e. pavement scooters.

Two and three wheeled vehicles with a seat height of 540mm or lower. i.e. low recumbents that don't meet pedelec law.

Vehicles with a maximum design speed at or less than 4 mph (6 kph).

What some of these don't have though is permission for use in public areas, so that is what's needed.

In addition, mobility vehicles are permitted 4 mph on pavements and 8 mph on roads.
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Thanks - I was only partly aware of the range of law there is. I suppose that there is a problem with people working out where each new craze fits and what to do with it - it ends up being a game of whack-a-mole - and by the time the police have guidance on a new device they have gone out of fashion.

 

[therealvicz]

This is a good explanation of UK law https://www.micro-scooters.co.uk/community/2019/01/electric-scooters-adults-kids-legal/

 

[scarrabri]

As there has been loads of discussion on here regarding the speed laws for pedelecs I was wondering if anyone new anything regarding scooters /skateboards.
I recently saw a kids electric scooter with a throttle reviewed on TV and a legal speed limit of 25kph was mentioned. I wonder if the occasional foot on the floor makes it a pedelec? Also, these seem to be aimed at riding on the pavement, or, everyone I've seen was on the pavement, (sensibly in my opinion).

Hi I have just bought one 250w 8amp and it is really good fun as mine has a seat on so as to scoot or ride ,fully equipped with excellent lights a mini computer and I am afraid to say only one brake which is a rear disc brake and not very good at stopping but a joy to ride in parks ,you would not use it on the road in the uk even if it was legal .

 

[scarrabri]

Hi I have just bought one 250w 8amp and it is really good fun as mine has a seat on so as to scoot or ride ,fully equipped with excellent lights a mini computer and I am afraid to say only one brake which is a rear disc brake and not very good at stopping but a joy to ride in parks ,you would not use it on the road in the uk even if it was legal .

 

[Michael Price]

You say you would not ride it on the road - but other people will. I even keep seeing one on groupon advertised as a 'commuter scooter'. The detail say off-road but do not make it clear that it is not road legal in any way.
They do look like good fun - but I would prefer them to stop better!

 

[scarrabri]

You say you would not ride it on the road - but other people will. I even keep seeing one on groupon advertised as a 'commuter scooter'. The detail say off-road but do not make it clear that it is not road legal in any way.
They do look like good fun - but I would prefer them to stop better!

Hi,have to say after adjusting the rear brake on the scooter it is much better but if only there were a front brake it would be perfect, I tend to use a very short stretch of very quite footpath to get me from my home on to the canal tow path and another mile to Westport lake which is beautiful and the endless miles of canal towpath takes you through beautiful country side which is stunning

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Hi,have to say after adjusting the rear brake on the scooter it is much better but if only there were a front brake it would be perfect, I tend to use a very short stretch of very quite footpath to get me from my home on to the canal tow path and another mile to Westport lake which is beautiful and the endless miles of canal towpath takes you through beautiful country side which is stunning

I remember Westport Lake area in the 1960s and 70s, it looked nothing like it does now. Very nice.

 

[KirstinS]

These scooters are a real issue where I live in and around Brighton. There are so many on roads, pavements and cycle paths. Many doing well over 15mph and seemingly ridden by hipsters and eejits. They cut up pedestrians , motorists and most cyclists especially on the shared use or too thin cycle paths

Police don't care at all

And in this forum we worry about increasing the speed of our totally legal 250w systems by a few mph via the LCD (where available )

 

[Nealh]

It's not only scooters I see whizzing about the promenade also e-skateboards and one with a trailer and canoe.

 

[Michael Price]

Police don't care at all

Yup - unless they cause a problem the police have better things to do - and if they try to catch them they could get into a race they cannot win without pulling in half the police in the local area - not worth the agro unless they hit someone I suppose

Also - they have little guidance and probably even less incentive - and the bad publicity that could happen could be silly
"Single mother fined 15 weeks Universal Credit as her little boy used his birthday present (i.e. hoverboard doing 20 mph while walkers dived for cover")"

 

[flecc]

Halfords have just mailed me about their range of e-scooters. They cynically clearly expect them to be used illegally, though they do spell out in the mailer that they are competely illegal on UK roads and pavements and can only be used on private land.

Here's the link to view the mailer online

And there's five models shown on this link with the illegality mentioned in tiny small print.
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[KirstinS]

Halfords have just mailed me about their range of e-scooters. They cynically clearly expect them to be used illegally, though they do spell out in the mailer that they are competely illegal on UK roads and pavements and can only be used on private land.

Here's the link to view the mailer online

And there's five models shown on this link with the illegality mentioned in tiny small print.
.

Decathlon are worse, they say nothing at all.

Their staff told me they are legal to use anywhere ( in person in the Brighton store)

Website states only this afaik

DO YOU NEED INSURANCE?
An electric scooter is subject to the same third-party insurance requirements as motorised vehicles such as motorcycles and cars.
Check with your insurer to find out if you already benefit from coverage or if you should take out special coverage before using your scooter.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Decathlon are worse, they say nothing at all.

Their staff told me they are legal to use anywhere ( in person in the Brighton store)

Website states only this afaik

DO YOU NEED INSURANCE?
An electric scooter is subject to the same third-party insurance requirements as motorised vehicles such as motorcycles and cars.
Check with your insurer to find out if you already benefit from coverage or if you should take out special coverage before using your scooter.

Things are going from bad to worse aren't they, I wonder hows many riders of deristricted ebikes, for example, are fully aware of the consequences of their actions?

 

[MikeS]

Even for pedelecs, pavement use is only permitted at low speeds when the rider is genuinely in fear of the traffic at the time.

Is that correct.? I thought the law said no riding on pavements
Mike

 

[flecc]

Is that correct.? I thought the law said no riding on pavements
Mike

When police and PCSOs were given the authority to issue Fixed Penalty Notices for pavement cycling in 1999 the Home Office minister Paul Boetang issued this guidance:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

The Minister said: "Thank you for bringing the issue of cycling on the pavement around dangerous junctions such as Vauxhall Cross to my attention. I agree that the police should be using discretion in enforcing this law and would support Paul Boateng's original guidance. You may wish to write to Sir Hugh Orde, President of the Association of Chief Police Officers, to bring this matter to his attention too."

Of course this permission should only be used if genuinely fearful of a bad traffic conditions, not routinely. Some police officers are not aware of this permission so it can be necessary to very politely inform them.
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