Electric cars 'pose environmental threat'

[morphix]

Off-topic but interesting story reported by the BBC this morning suggesting new research indicates electric cars may not be the answer to greener transport. It suggests they may actually be worse than conventional cars for pollution in some areas.. it's not that clear cut though and research shows there's some regional benefits. Some interesting info on battery technology and environmental effects.

BBC News - Electric cars 'pose environmental threat'

 

[RoadieRoger]

Apart from the pros and cons of electric over diesel or petrol vehicles , we won`t have enough electricity generating capacity in a few years unless the Government makes some swift decisions . The much vaunted wind turbines don`t produce enough , nuclear seems a long way off and that leaves coal which the Politicians want to kill off early to lead the world in `greenness` . Looks like the Chinese will be our saviours in producing E machines as they have a monopoly on the rare earth metals and don`t mind still using coal .
Forum Members who watch ship movements on MarineTraffic.com will be aware that our coal to Bristol and Port Talbot comes from Queensland , Santa Marta , Colombia , South Africa and America amongst other places , even though we have plenty still left here .

 

[flecc]

Yes, I've previously posted that e-cars are definitely not a viable answer to our transport needs, and unlikely to be worth considering for decades yet. Batteries are not remotely fit for this purpose and show no signs of being so in our lifetimes, and they cannot be anywhere near financially competitive with ic. I also don't consider the hybrid ic/electric cars an answer, since they start life with a much greater environmental impact and will end it no more favourably if we don't do a much better job of recycling, both in quantity and economically.

As for the electricity supplies, even if governments made a really determined effort now, creating enough generating capacity for e-cars to take over from i.c. would take over half a century at least.

 

[flecc]

P.S. to above post, the BBC TV News today announced a report that scheduled closures of coal fired power stations mean our average margin of spare generating capacity will fall from 20% to 4% by 2015. That's just over two years away now!

That 4% margin means that a really cold snap or an unexpected power station failure will mean the lights going out, something many of us have been warning about for ages. Meanwhile our dithering governments still do nothing to build new stations. We have to go nuclear, there really is no alternative that's environmentally acceptable, but it's now far too late for new builds to rescue us from this situation.

 

[Old_Dave]

One day the common man / woman will wake up (doubt if it will be any time soon) and hopefully make more noise than the pressure groups who can see no further than their green bio toilet...

The big picture is that going green only = a darn good excuse to raise taxes, even wind turbines have a limited life and with the emissions created in their construction & bases ain't as green as we are lead (by the noses) to believe

The only light at the end of the tunnel for the planet will be cold fusion (that's if its not just a gorilla with a torch)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That 4% margin means that a really cold snap or an unexpected power station failure will mean the lights going out, something many of us have been warning about for ages.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing as long as they can arrange it between 6pm amd 10pm. It'll get the kids off their X- boxes and adults off soaps into real life. I seem to remember the power cuts in the '70s being a lot of fun. We all got the candles and guitars out and had a sing-song.

 

[neptune]

Regarding cold fusion, which has often been quoted as an example of "Pathological Science" , I feel that there are now too many commercial firms and universities involved in this to dismiss it. It has already shown far more promise than hot fusion which has consumed trillions of dollars, and wasted 40 years of research. That is my opinion, and many will not share it.
The key to sustainable transport is to work near to where you live, and to eat locally grown food where possible. When it comes to travel, less is more. If you want to travel for recreation, get on yer bike.

 

[flecc]

I'm not sure that's a bad thing as long as they can arrange it between 6pm amd 10pm. It'll get the kids off their X- boxes and adults off soaps into real life. I seem to remember the power cuts in the '70s being a lot of fun. We all got the candles and guitars out and had a sing-song.

It's hard to say how the distribution of cuts would be now. In the '70s it was in three hour periods around the clock for all areas, but our manufacturing bases have shrunk since then so the pattern could change. In my area over the years we've often had cuts lasting from 2 to 36 hours for various reasons including many infrastructure faults, so I'm well equipped with emergency electric lighting, power for my TV/radio equipped laptop and cooking/heating facilities, so I remain largely unaffected. Trouble is that after the cut ends, everything goes on recharge, defeating any power saving objective!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

... and what happened to that guy with the machine that could get more electricity out than you put in. I thought that his irrefutable demonstration to the world was imminent about a year ago. Anyway, it doesn't matter because I'll be able to buy all the energy I want with the gold I'll have once I've converted the lead. I just got to get a bit more smoke and maybe a bigger mirror.

 

[RoadieRoger]

Look on the bright side ( although it might be dim ) and they might switch off TV transmissions like they did in the 60`s . Transmit a few hours in the afternoon , nothing from 5-7 pm , then more until 11 pm and that`s it . Just think of the junk you won`t see and feel sorry for all the Luvvies out of jobs .

 

[neptune]

Daft as it sounds, power cuts, if not too frequent and prolonged, do have a positive side. They say that you don`t know what you have until you loose it. It helps remind us all how thin is this veneer of civilisation under which we live. I know many young people who have never seen real darkness, or had a chance to see a starlit sky in all its glory.

 

[Scimitar]

Regarding cold fusion, which has often been quoted as an example of "Pathological Science" , I feel that there are now too many commercial firms and universities involved in this to dismiss it. It has already shown far more promise than hot fusion which has consumed trillions of dollars, and wasted 40 years of research. That is my opinion, and many will not share it.

Psst! Wanna buy a bridge?

 

[Scimitar]

... and what happened to that guy with the machine that could get more electricity out than you put in. I thought that his irrefutable demonstration to the world was imminent about a year ago. Anyway, it doesn't matter because I'll be able to buy all the energy I want with the gold I'll have once I've converted the lead. I just got to get a bit more smoke and maybe a bigger mirror.

I've got one o' them thar machines in my shed - I keep it parked next to my car that runs on water, the ones the Oil Companies tried to steal from me. Yep Sirree Bob, there ain't no flies on me.

 

[smudger1956]

P.S. to above post, the BBC TV News today announced a report that scheduled closures of coal fired power stations mean our average margin of spare generating capacity will fall from 20% to 4% by 2015. That's just over two years away now!

That 4% margin means that a really cold snap or an unexpected power station failure will mean the lights going out, something many of us have been warning about for ages. Meanwhile our dithering governments still do nothing to build new stations. We have to go nuclear, there really is no alternative that's environmentally acceptable, but it's now far too late for new builds to rescue us from this situation.

Shame about the coal stations, considering the amount of coal we still have remaining, and the technology to burn it and to treat the emissions.

 

[NRG]

When we become desperate enough we'll start digging it up again and burning it.

 

[Old_Dave]

Problems with our home grown coal

1. It's cheaper to import it to the uk than to dig our own.
2. Our miners have been a troublesome lot, wot with unions, strikes, wanting a fair rate of pay for the job & insisting on safety standards
3. Most of our mines would need a fortune spending on them to get them back into production.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[muckymits]

Problems with our home grown coal

1. It's cheaper to import it to the uk than to dig our own.
2. Our miners have been a troublesome lot, wot with unions, strikes, wanting a fair rate of pay for the job & insisting on safety standards
3. Most of our mines would need a fortune spending on them to get them back into production.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And up here in Durham we've just got the place tidied up and looking nice, we don't want to go back to that lot again.

 

[flecc]

Problems with our home grown coal

1. It's cheaper to import it to the uk than to dig our own.
2. Our miners have been a troublesome lot, wot with unions, strikes, wanting a fair rate of pay for the job & insisting on safety standards
3. Most of our mines would need a fortune spending on them to get them back into production.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But, much of ours is ancient top quality clean burning anthracite. The stuff we import from South America is soft coal which burns in the filthiest way possible, just like most Chinese coal.

As for the disadvantages of digging it up again, "where there's muck there's money" as the saying goes, it would do wonders for our economy.

Posted tongue in cheek from the coal free Surrey border!

 

[smudger1956]

P.S. to above post, the BBC TV News today announced a report that scheduled closures of coal fired power stations mean our average margin of spare generating capacity will fall from 20% to 4% by 2015. That's just over two years away now!

That 4% margin means that a really cold snap or an unexpected power station failure will mean the lights going out, something many of us have been warning about for ages. Meanwhile our dithering governments still do nothing to build new stations. We have to go nuclear, there really is no alternative that's environmentally acceptable, but it's now far too late for new builds to rescue us from this situation.

This recent announcement of scheduled closures of coal fired power stations is thanks to the EU and the ‘Emission Brigade’, which is a load of old Cod’s, part of my job is to reactivate 4000/6000 tonnes of Spent Granular Carbon per year for potable water use, this procedure requires a furnace and an afterburner running at 850 degrees, it produces tonnes of CO/NOx which gets treated via a scrubber system, so our emissions to atmosphere is just warm air.
Our scrubber system is the most singular expensive bit of ‘kit’ in the whole process, and is licensed by the EA on strict emission to atmosphere.The same system can be used for fossil fuel emissions.
The residual left behind is an inert dust, which goes for disposal, the procedure does use a lot of gas and electric, but the process costs is 40% cheaper than replacing the Granular Carbon, and we can carry out this process up to 6 times with the same batch of Granular Carbon.
In conversation with an Oil Company Executive friend, on our energy needs and resources, he informed me that it has been discussed at a Ministerial level about our reserves of coal, and the diminishing expertise of extracting it and who will pay for the emission control systems.
He also informed on the state of worldwide oil reserves at our time of conversation, I am not going to disclose that information, all I will say it that it does concern me and we need to stop paying lip service to alternative fuels.
That’s my rant over, bikes charged, sun is out, going for a ride………..

 

[timidtom]

Still, look on the bright side - there'll be lots more lovely babies = more schools = more employment for teachers = my neice Clare will mabe get a job!
Tom