Electric Bikes. My Learning curve part 2

[flecc]

AFAIK, (and I'm sure flecc will have the definitive answer), there is no category of motor vehicle in the UK equivalent to the German speed pedelec. You would have to modify it to such an extent that it would become a moped, with all the restrictions associated with them.

Exactly, it would have to be heavily modified to conform to all the P1 moped class requirements and then submitted to the Vehicle Inspectorate for single vehicle approval at one of their testing stations, cost of £85 with retest charge of £17 if required. Then it would have to be ridden as a moped with motorcycle crash helmet etc and the same parking and access restrictions.

Note though that the DfT are now aware of what some of us might want and have a note on their site that the approval system may not be suitable for users of what they call "assistive technology".

So they know there are problems in getting this approval for any e-bike and I think it likely that this note resulted from BS10 owners turning up with their EU approval certificate and expecting immediate type approval without modifications.

However, some of the requirements are not onerous. An e-bike submitted for approval does not have to have a dipping headlight or stop light for example, but it must have lights and rear and pedal reflectors. The headlight beam if not a dipping one must at all times conform to the dipped beam position requirements.

Brakes would have to be disc, others like calipers and V brakes etc only permitted on the Low Powered Moped class which is restricted to 16 mph assist.

A r/h mirror of between 94mm and 150mm diameter is required, and so is a secure stand, prop or two leg.

A possible stumbling block is the requirement for a VIN plate, but since the scheme is for home builds as well, presumably a stamped-in frame number would be acceptable.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Indicators too, and they want the wiring protected, which is not much of a problem with the BS10, but a nuisance for others.

 

[flecc]

Indicators too, and they want the wiring protected, which is not much of a problem with the BS10, but a nuisance for others.

Not for the moped class, left and right indicators are listed under "Optional" in lighting. Three wheel mopeds, motorcycles and quadricycles are required to have them.

There are other small requirements that I haven't mentioned since they are not a problem. For example an "audible means of warning of approach", usually a horn but a bell is not ruled out, and a speedometer which can be our usual cycle digital ones.

 

[jackhandy]

Not too much of a problem with those requirements, then; But...

Banned from use on cycle trails, bridleways, mixed use trails & Any land to which the great unwashed has access - Road use Only.

That would be the deal breaker for me.

And, after all that, it appears the Bosch-powered s-types have no more grunt than the standard fare - just higher top-speed assist. Handy for commuting I guess, but not down here in the boondocks.

 

[flecc]

Not too much of a problem with those requirements, then; But...

Banned from use on cycle trails, bridleways, mixed use trails & Any land to which the great unwashed has access - Road use Only.

That would be the deal breaker for me.

And, after all that, it appears the Bosch-powered s-types have no more grunt than the standard fare - just higher top-speed assist. Handy for commuting I guess, but not down here in the boondocks.

True for off-road, not that young moped riders take any notice of these rules!

I agree that those most likely to benefit are commuters over longer distances needing to keep their commute time reasonable.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The one outlet for this brand in the UK does now have this clear warning on the BS10 bike details web page:

"To use this bicycle on a public road the user should first register it, fit a registration plate and then tax and insure it. Registration plate holder can be removed for off-road use."

I believe at one time the website location of the warning was generically positioned for all high speed models so could conceivably be missed when viewing online. Of course face to face sales at their retail outlets are dependent on the salesperson making this limitation absolutely clear.

Just actually had a look at their site.... Can't see anything about the bikes not being road legal?

 

[flecc]

Just actually had a look at their site.... Can't see anything about the bikes not being road legal?

Since I looked at it when that warning was there as copied and pasted by me, the speed model webpages have been renewed, the BS10s are now called Endeavour models and as you say, the warnings on the legal issues are no longer there.

 

[SRS]

Since I looked at it when that warning was there as copied and pasted by me, the speed model webpages have been renewed, the BS10s are now called Endeavour models and as you say, the warnings on the legal issues are no longer there.

Does seem a bit odd they they fail to mention the legal aspect.

I guess that they are working on the theory that just about everyone that buys one is more than happy with it.

By the time the government realise that the country is full of very purposeful but illegal ebikes it will be too late.
They will relent, come to their senses and make the things legal. The owners can then just carry on their lives, green and worry free.

 

[flecc]

By the time the government realise that the country is full of very purposeful but illegal ebikes it will be too late.
They will relent, come to their senses and make the things legal. The owners can then just carry on their lives, green and worry free.

Not this time! The DfT acceded to 250 watts replacing 200 watts as de facto simply because that was the EU law which they had always intended to align with since May 9th 2003.

But only recently they made it very plain that higher speeds and/or power are out of the question and will not be considered for the UK. In this respect there are two other considerations.

First, that in Germany alone in the EU where an S class e-bike is permitted, it is registered, plated and insured with other moped-like restrictions. Our S class e-bikes are being used as completely illegal pedelecs. That will never be legalised, if for no other reason, simply because even the EU ban it.

Second, the number of S class e-bikes on our roads is tiny, far fewer than the total numbers of illegal mini-motos, powered pavement scooters and other illegal types. As with them, the government will have no compunction in taking them off the road and crushing them.

 

[SRS]

Not this time! The DfT acceded to 250 watts replacing 200 watts as de facto simply because that was the EU law which they had always intended to align with since May 9th

Second, the number of S class e-bikes on our roads is tiny, far fewer than the total numbers of illegal mini-motos, powered pavement scooters and other illegal types. As with them, the government will have no compunction in taking them off the road and crushing them.

Lets not forget, they could also fine the users and make some money at the some time as crushing.

Alternatively, they could ask themselves why these bikes are on the road in the first place. Hmm!, maybe they are serving a useful purpose.

Personally, I hope 50 cycles sell a huge shed load of the S class bikes.

I also hope the buyers use these cycles in place of their cars. Only then will we start to see some real progress.

 

[flecc]

It's a nice thought, but things just don't work that way. Our government of the day, guided by the civil service and EU rules will do exactly as usual.

Transport matters are a matter for the EU as specified ever since the Treaty of Rome and in several treaties since. That's why we draw ever closer into legal alignment. The nearest we could ever get to what you wish is permitting the S class with the accompanying bureaucracy. This being the UK, the bureaucracy we applied to the S class would be tougher than the German version, making it not worth participating.

No S class bike will ever operate under the pedelec rules in an EU country, 2022/EC/24 rules that completely out.

 

[Alchemist]

Looks like the Norwegians are better off again, then! No wonder Ukip are on the ascendency lol! Maybe Nigel will offer S-ped riders an amnesty in the afermath of the glorious Eu revolt in a month's time ha ha!
BTW, does the crusher beckon for any 'dongled' but otherwise conforming pedelecs?

 

[flecc]

Looks like the Norwegians are better off again, then!

Not so Alchemist. Although Norway left the EU to protect it's fishing industry, for convenience, freedom of movement and trading purposes it has retained most EU law. That includes the EU's pedelecs legislation in it's entirety.

 

[Alchemist]

Bah! Suppose we'll have to go to Iceland, or Lichtenstein, or the Grand Duchy of Fenwick, or such like! Any views re the supplementary Q ( re 'dongled' ebikes), flecc?
I didn't realise Norway had ever in fact joined the EU, but if they indeed did and have since left again, I suppose that would set a precendent for the likes of Greece, Portugal, Cyprus etc, when the going gets too hard on the repayment of dues - I read somewhere that at current rates of 'repayment' the Greeks will be in a fix for the rest of the century, unless they choose to return to the Drachma, or at any reate leave the EU. I understand they're just about due for another tranche of German Aid too, to save them running out of cash.

Norway, on the other hand, are around 8th wealthiest per capita country on this planet, so they say!