I kind of agree on both sides, i think it is beneficial to have the dealers available to comment but it should be clear which members are dealers and who they represent.
electric bike retailers are just businessmen
- Thread starter Grizzly Bear
- Start date
So who is going to pay for it Griz, if not the e-bike advertisers? This is true of virtually all website forums, advertisers pay for them. It's not wrong if it's the only way to finance them at present.
Of course this doesn't apply to me, my Panasonic, Lafree and eZee technical advice sites and personal answers via them are completely free and not donated to by anyone. Now why isn't there a smiley with a halo?
They mostly do, it's in the rules of this site that they must make their position clear in every posting, whether promoting product or not.
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Perhaps I'm naeve, it's not right to my mind that's all. I'm a very honest up front guy, you may have noticed that? it just doesn't sit well with me!So who is going to pay for it Griz, if not the e-bike advertisers? This is true of virtually all website forums, advertisers pay for them. It's not wrong if it's the only way to finance them at present.
Of course this doesn't apply to me, my Panasonic, Lafree and eZee technical advice sites and personal answers via them are completely free and not donated to by anyone. Now why isn't there a smiley with a halo?
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something like this?Now why isn't there a smiley with a halo?
though I think this may do just as well
I understand exactly where you are coming from Griz, and I agree that your position might be best in an ideal world. The web sure ain't an ideal world though!
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I think I'd need both at differing times.something like this?
though I think this may do just as well
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It is, and amazing as it might seem, some manufacturers and suppliers are passionate about them too.
David Miall of Wisper clearly is, likewise Wai Won Ching the eZee principal who rides thousands of kilometres on his and is riding the famous Silk Route in stages year by year on his bikes. Justin of ebikes.ca is another real enthusiast who is a dealer second, riding everything he sells, including on a cross-Canada trip. Anthony of electricbikes.nz is another enthusiast before he added being a dealer and later the Wisper representative for the Antipodes. Tim of 50cycles often prefers riding e-bikes to using his car and when visiting me seized the opportunity to try one of my heavily modified bikes, something only someone keen on e-bikes would do.
They really aren't all about avarice.
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I'm not seeing an issue Griz. Given the niche nature of our interest the forum is very well attended and there's plenty of good input from members both independent & commercial. Junk posts and blatant ads are usually blasted. Most the commercial posters have been helpful if anything. I accept the advertising in the same way I accept the advertising on commercial channels - just ignore it.
Hi Griz,
It looks like I'm the first from the trade environment to post in your thread. I can only speak for myself and explain you the reasons why I'm here. Obviously all the trade environment is here because they want to gain something here just like any other members. Some trade posts indeed do promote their own products but personally I feel our presence is quite good for all members because it:
1. It gives us the opportunity to engage with our customers and listen to you
2. To solve any technical problems that may occur
3. To learn from you on how to improve our products to make even better ebikes
4. To keep you updated on the technicalities coming up
These are just a few of the reasons why I'm here. You say forum is for those who love electric bikes. I have to tell you then that this is a reason why I'm here. I'm 28 now but I was racing on the mountain bike since I was 12. The bike has been with me for 16 years now and that's a bigger part of my life. During that time I rode kkkkk of miles and raced xxx of races. Few years back I had a bad accident on my bike that excludes me now from riding a normal bike on the long distances that is why I'm on the electric now. Despite the accident I haven't given up and I'm still here. Do you know why???
... because I love these two wheelers and I have a real passion for them. I have a both degrees in engineering and business and frankly I want to use my knowledge and passion in life.
... that is why I'm here and I know that many others from the industry are not here just to make a profits. David of Wisper is absolutely passionate about it and he learnt a lot from members here on how to get a better bikes. Tim from 50 Cycles is a regular bike user too who's passionate about bikes. I'm sure there would be many others to add to the list.
All the best
Andrew
I personally welcome the trade members as i do genuinely believe they do have an interest/passion for electric bikes. Lets be honest if they were only interested in money I'm sure there are many more business ventures that would yield larger profits. They do genuinely listen to the people on this forum and help people out, nothing wrong with that. I also notice that this forum does seem to be a slightly above, shall we say average intelligence(welcome lack of text grammar) forum, I'm sure the members would smell a sales pitch a mile away.
I really think we have to remember this is a really small community and if only a few of the dealers were to pack it in the choice of bikes would dramatically fall. Slightly off topic but i now honestly feel electric bikes will never be main stream as there is a severe attitude against electric bikes. As previously discussed they are looked down on and this I'm afraid will never change. So we are a small community so lets all get on
I really think we have to remember this is a really small community and if only a few of the dealers were to pack it in the choice of bikes would dramatically fall. Slightly off topic but i now honestly feel electric bikes will never be main stream as there is a severe attitude against electric bikes. As previously discussed they are looked down on and this I'm afraid will never change. So we are a small community so lets all get on
Retailers, etc.
Lordy lordy, here I am out of step again! Where better to build a reliable view of the nature of retailers than among the group of people who have experience of them? Speak as you find, as my old granny used to mutter. Good service deserves reward - there are too many scamps about trying to part a poor pensioner from his pennies!
My tuppence!
Tom
Lordy lordy, here I am out of step again! Where better to build a reliable view of the nature of retailers than among the group of people who have experience of them? Speak as you find, as my old granny used to mutter. Good service deserves reward - there are too many scamps about trying to part a poor pensioner from his pennies!
My tuppence!
Tom
You could of course start your own electric bike forum that explicitly bars commercial contributions and see if there's a mass exodus from here and the other forums over to it.
Riding, recommending and selling electric bikes since 2003.
Pedelecs forum member and participant since day one.
Riding, recommending and selling electric bikes since 2003.
Pedelecs forum member and participant since day one.
TBH the robust and frank dialogue between dealers, manufacturers and prospective customers shows a level of transparency that many other industries lack.. I doublt you'd be able to have an open dialogue with Mr Shimano for instance (even though I think the current lad in charge is one of the younger sons so English wouldn't be a problem) like you could with David Miall or Wai Won Ching...
Even when a dealer / manufacturer posts they are subject to intense scrutiny from the rest of the community and are judged by how they respond.
Also the forum has shown itself very useful in giving all the manufacturers/dealers a nudge to address customer service problems quickly...
Even when a dealer / manufacturer posts they are subject to intense scrutiny from the rest of the community and are judged by how they respond.
Also the forum has shown itself very useful in giving all the manufacturers/dealers a nudge to address customer service problems quickly...
Griz:
I think the basic point is this.
There are some retailers here who just jump in and say "My bikes are good, come and look at my bikes, please please", as soon as some newcomer asks for recommendations.
Most of us, including hopefully the newcomers, just tut, raise our eyebrows, and move on to the next posting. Point being that we are big enough to distinguish between genuine interest and self-interest.
My case, for example. I asked whether Wisper bikes would carry someone of 19stone+ up and down hills. The reply which persuaded me almost instantly that Wispers were the bikes for me came from David, of Wisper, who posted photographs of HIMSELF (about 5'7", 19stone+), riding his Wisper. QED.
And another (of the many) genuine retailers worth mentioning: there is a current thread asking about an ebike from a woman in the West Country. Bob Wales, proprietor of Juicy Bikes (of Derbyshire), wrote recommending a bike shop in her part of the world which doesn't even STOCK Juicy Bikes. Now that really is disinterested help.
Cheer up, Griz, it's a better world round here than some have to endure!
Respectfully,
Allen.
I think the basic point is this.
There are some retailers here who just jump in and say "My bikes are good, come and look at my bikes, please please", as soon as some newcomer asks for recommendations.
Most of us, including hopefully the newcomers, just tut, raise our eyebrows, and move on to the next posting. Point being that we are big enough to distinguish between genuine interest and self-interest.
My case, for example. I asked whether Wisper bikes would carry someone of 19stone+ up and down hills. The reply which persuaded me almost instantly that Wispers were the bikes for me came from David, of Wisper, who posted photographs of HIMSELF (about 5'7", 19stone+), riding his Wisper. QED.
And another (of the many) genuine retailers worth mentioning: there is a current thread asking about an ebike from a woman in the West Country. Bob Wales, proprietor of Juicy Bikes (of Derbyshire), wrote recommending a bike shop in her part of the world which doesn't even STOCK Juicy Bikes. Now that really is disinterested help.
Cheer up, Griz, it's a better world round here than some have to endure!
Respectfully,
Allen.
From my point of view I welcome the posts from the traders on this site. Their posts are usally well informed and address the question raised. Rarely are they just "buy my bikes they're the best" type posts. Where else can a prospective buyer go and get several opinions from both users and retailers about a whole range of bikes. Of course they want to sell their bikes and make money and as a customer I want them to be successful bouyant companies that will always be there to provide me with back up. If a retailer started posting claims that where clearly untrue then those of us who sue their products would jump in with our own points of view. Its this balance that makes the site self policing
The interent is full of forums about all sorts of items that are full of ill informed, while often well meaning, advice from the blokes down the pub. Well I value being about to hear things from the horses mouth.
Look at some of the motoring forums wouldnt be great if some of the top engineers in BMW posted. Well thats what we have here and its what makes this forum stand out from the rest and long may it carry on
The interent is full of forums about all sorts of items that are full of ill informed, while often well meaning, advice from the blokes down the pub. Well I value being about to hear things from the horses mouth.
Look at some of the motoring forums wouldnt be great if some of the top engineers in BMW posted. Well thats what we have here and its what makes this forum stand out from the rest and long may it carry on
Whilst ever it works both ways, I am happy for the retailers to come on here and promote their own products. By that, I mean, we the forum members, should be able to write about the negative aspects of their products or service.
As long as what is written is both truthful and factual, then the retailers shouldn't whinge that we are all being nasty to them and demand the closure of certain threads. To have an expectation that you can pop up on here and write happy sentences about your own business, and then protest when someone writes something not to your liking isn't really playing the game. This has happened in the past.
As long as what is written is both truthful and factual, then the retailers shouldn't whinge that we are all being nasty to them and demand the closure of certain threads. To have an expectation that you can pop up on here and write happy sentences about your own business, and then protest when someone writes something not to your liking isn't really playing the game. This has happened in the past.
Well if you did , they probably wouldnt be sales people.
That said, what person doesnt try to sell you something ?
Its like asking someone when was the last original thought they had , for nearly everyone 0.
t
If people post interesting or thought out comments, I don't see that it matters who they are, dealer or not.
When new stuff comes out or stock comes in, I find it informative when a dealer lets us know.
Of course dealers act in their own self-interest - at its most raw and short term, yes making a profit. But long term profits will accrue to dealers who keep their customers happy.
For myself, I buy, from time to time guitars, cameras and bicycles. I long ago learned that basing my buying on the cheapest deal is not always best. In all the cases mentioned, I tend to go back to the same dealers. They have good prices, I can see and I can try the goods. In all those cases, they have been brought to my attention by word of mouth or good reports from experienced people in forums like these.
I hope all my favoured dealers make a good profit. That way, when I fancy a new camera or e-bike, they'll be there to sell it to me.
So yes, electric bike dealers are businessmen. The 'just' in the thread header seems to imply there's something wrong with that.
When new stuff comes out or stock comes in, I find it informative when a dealer lets us know.
Of course dealers act in their own self-interest - at its most raw and short term, yes making a profit. But long term profits will accrue to dealers who keep their customers happy.
For myself, I buy, from time to time guitars, cameras and bicycles. I long ago learned that basing my buying on the cheapest deal is not always best. In all the cases mentioned, I tend to go back to the same dealers. They have good prices, I can see and I can try the goods. In all those cases, they have been brought to my attention by word of mouth or good reports from experienced people in forums like these.
I hope all my favoured dealers make a good profit. That way, when I fancy a new camera or e-bike, they'll be there to sell it to me.
So yes, electric bike dealers are businessmen. The 'just' in the thread header seems to imply there's something wrong with that.
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