Electric Bike for disabled teenager

[frdedee]

Hi, I am a father of a 13 yr old girl who has cerebral palsy. This affects her legs mostly but does not prevent her from riding a "normal" two wheeled bicycle. She does not have the stamina to cycle far, fast nor up steep gradients and keeping up with her twin sister is also a hard.
Mounting a bicycle is difficult so a step through frame is a must.
I have muted the idea of getting an electric bike for her so that we have a better opportunities of cycling as a family.
I cannot find the one crucial dimension that will enable her to mount an electric bike. The distance between the ground and the top of the step through frame.
I have also had problems to find a local bike shop who stocks the XS fame size with the smaller 26" wheel. I know that Gazelle and Cube make this type but they are not popular sizes here in Normandy.
We live in the UK but I have no qualms about buying a bike in the UK ( we travel frequently ) or the Netherlands (her last two bikes came from there while on holiday) or here in France. So long as they are made by one of the better known European manufacturers.
She would prefer to have a "proper" looking bike which I think would be more practical and comfortable than the small wheel types.
A hub motor is a must.
Sorry for the ramble. If anyone has any similar experiences and or recommendations for bikes to look at I would be grateful.

 

[flecc]

I don't have a recommendation but hope she is nearing 14, since that is the minimum legal age for riding an e-bike on the roads in the UK.
.

 

[frdedee]

Thank you for your reply,
As far as I can see and have been told there is no such minimum age limit here in France nor elsewhere in Europe. Any bike she gets will be pedal assisted not twist and go (mo-ped).
I hope this will not start any Brexit type debate here nor lead this thread off topic but I have read that UK police forces enforce the EU standards anyway.

 

[flecc]

Thank you for your reply,
As far as I can see and have been told there is no such minimum age limit here in France nor elsewhere in Europe. Any bike she gets will be pedal assisted not twist and go (mo-ped).
I hope this will not start any Brexit type debate here nor lead this thread off topic but I have read that UK police forces enforce the EU standards anyway.

There's no connection to Brexit, my intention is only that you should be informed. What you do is entirely a matter for you of course. It's correct that most of the EU countries don't have such a pedelec age limit, but here in the UK we emphatically do. It's contained in the Road Traffic Act 1988.

Usage law is a national matter for all EU countries and varies greatly for many vehicle types. EU standards apply to construction.

I've just copied this from a DfT advice notice and highlighted in bold the key part:

1. The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983 Statutory Instrument 1983 No.1168 and The Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) Regulations - 1983 Statutory Instrument 1983 No. 1176. An Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle which complies with the technical requirements in SI 1983/1168 an EAPC‚ is not considered to be a motor vehicle within the meaning of The Road Traffic Act 1988. An EAPC is not required to be registered, pay vehicle excise duty road tax‚ or be insured as a motor vehicle. An EAPC cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14 years.
.
.

 

[Rutland Cycling]

Hi, I am a father of a 13 yr old girl who has cerebral palsy. This affects her legs mostly but does not prevent her from riding a "normal" two wheeled bicycle. She does not have the stamina to cycle far, fast nor up steep gradients and keeping up with her twin sister is also a hard.
Mounting a bicycle is difficult so a step through frame is a must.
I have muted the idea of getting an electric bike for her so that we have a better opportunities of cycling as a family.
I cannot find the one crucial dimension that will enable her to mount an electric bike. The distance between the ground and the top of the step through frame.
I have also had problems to find a local bike shop who stocks the XS fame size with the smaller 26" wheel. I know that Gazelle and Cube make this type but they are not popular sizes here in Normandy.
We live in the UK but I have no qualms about buying a bike in the UK ( we travel frequently ) or the Netherlands (her last two bikes came from there while on holiday) or here in France. So long as they are made by one of the better known European manufacturers.
She would prefer to have a "proper" looking bike which I think would be more practical and comfortable than the small wheel types.
A hub motor is a must.
Sorry for the ramble. If anyone has any similar experiences and or recommendations for bikes to look at I would be grateful.

Hello Frdedee,

Obviously I have to repeat Flecc's point regarding age in regards to UK riders - however I cannot find any regulations on age in France.

You mention that Hub motor is a must - however the brands you mention are very much focused towards crank driven motors?

We have a few 26", XS frames in stock on various bikes. If you want me to get a measurement, just let me know which bike and I'll get that sorted for you.

Cube don't make a 26" electric bike, however they have just released a 42cm frame. This brings the stand-over height down to pretty much the same as that of a 26", 46cm frame.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/382779/products/cube-town-hybrid-one-400-step-th-2018-comfort-electric-hybrid-bike.aspx

Another similar bike would be the Kalkhoff Agattu b7 which comes in that size. Realistically - anyone 5ft over can get on that bike.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/382632/products/kalkhoff-agattu-b7-2017-electric-hybrid-bike-grey.aspx

If you have any questions please do let me know.

 

[Ocsid]

Whilst not meeting your hub motor requirement I know, I have measured my wife's Kalkhoff Agattu 8 speed which was the smallest frame and specified with the smaller 26" wheel option. My wife has her own disability challenges.
The step over measures 240mm [one foot three and three quarter inches]

Its 8 speed Nexus roller clutched hub is very sympathetic to riders abilities, you can change moving or static. This model being fitted with a belt drive instead of a chain removes the oily mess issues those with mobility problems can get into without fully encased chains.

On this forum, the questionable ruggedness of Kalkhoff's motors is frequently voiced, in our case hopefully we can keep clear of this given the very light demands my frail wife is ever likely to place on it. She has put on 300 miles so far in four months of ownership and it runs very nicely and is a bike she can now cope with.

 

[Trevormonty]

Have you considered fitting dropper seat post, would allow her to have both feet firmly on ground when stopped. There are some that easy fitted with wireless remote fitted to handbars.

 

[Gaz]

Hello Frdedee

I have a similar disability. Right sided hemi paresis is its label. I'm 53 now, but I was once 13. When I was 13 it wasn't so black and white. I was told I was a 'spastic' (hence the nickname, Gaz the spaz). This was back when Scope was the 'Spastics Society' and outside every well meaning shop was a Fibreglass boy, wearing a calliper, with a dog sat by him who had a slot in his head for donations of loose change.
I've done alright. I've delivered training about equality issues. I've done that at both local and national level. I wrote part of the Disability Discrimination Act.
I don't blame them at all. Far from it. But in hindsight, I wish, when I was 13, that my parents had challenged things more. At the time (mid 1970's) it wasn't really the done thing. You didn't challenge a 'Mr' from a London hospital who said 'Gary's doing really well. Come back in six months.'.
I spent a fair while working for a charity who had a lot to do with mobility scooters, wheelchairs, etc.
Can a 13 year old have a powered wheelchair (or an EPIOC)? Why yes, they can. Can a 13 year old have a class three mobility scooter? Why no, they can't. Are the lawmakers worried? No, they are not. Do the Police police the matter? No they do not. Will you be public flogged for looking into an e-bike for your not quite 14 year old daughter? No you will not.
Can this fora and website condone it? Probably not.
I for one say if you can get an ebike that'll suit your daughter, that'll give her a bit of freedom, a bit of choice and control, liberty even. Then go for it, and power to your elbow

Gaz

 

[soundwave]

 

[louiem]

I need a small bike, being 5'1 and this week tried the Giant Ease-e+ in small which was too big for me and also a Liv Amiti in XS which was a perfect size. I also sat on a Carerra Crossfire-e in size 16 which was a similar size to the XS Liv. I could put my feet comfortably on the ground with all of those. However, I have settled on a Lapierre Overvolt Cross 800W in 41cm. However, all those bikes have bigger wheels I think, but I didn't pay attention to that when I tried them. I was just trying them for comfort and size. Also, I tried a Byocycle in our nearest electric bike shop, and whilst the look of the bike didn't appeal, again, it was a good fit. I'm not sure which exact model it was, but it was one of the ones that has the little wheels and may have even been a folding one.

 

[lunarmike]

Hello Frdedee

I have a similar disability. Right sided hemi paresis is its label. I'm 53 now, but I was once 13. When I was 13 it wasn't so black and white. I was told I was a 'spastic' (hence the nickname, Gaz the spaz). This was back when Scope was the 'Spastics Society' and outside every well meaning shop was a Fibreglass boy, wearing a calliper, with a dog sat by him who had a slot in his head for donations of loose change.
I've done alright. I've delivered training about equality issues. I've done that at both local and national level. I wrote part of the Disability Discrimination Act.
I don't blame them at all. Far from it. But in hindsight, I wish, when I was 13, that my parents had challenged things more. At the time (mid 1970's) it wasn't really the done thing. You didn't challenge a 'Mr' from a London hospital who said 'Gary's doing really well. Come back in six months.'.
I spent a fair while working for a charity who had a lot to do with mobility scooters, wheelchairs, etc.
Can a 13 year old have a powered wheelchair (or an EPIOC)? Why yes, they can. Can a 13 year old have a class three mobility scooter? Why no, they can't. Are the lawmakers worried? No, they are not. Do the Police police the matter? No they do not. Will you be public flogged for looking into an e-bike for your not quite 14 year old daughter? No you will not.
Can this fora and website condone it? Probably not.
I for one say if you can get an ebike that'll suit your daughter, that'll give her a bit of freedom, a bit of choice and control, liberty even. Then go for it, and power to your elbow

Gaz

Hear!hear! well said, heart warming!

 

[frdedee]

Hello Frdedee,

Obviously I have to repeat Flecc's point regarding age in regards to UK riders - however I cannot find any regulations on age in France.

You mention that Hub motor is a must - however the brands you mention are very much focused towards crank driven motors?

We have a few 26", XS frames in stock on various bikes. If you want me to get a measurement, just let me know which bike and I'll get that sorted for you.

Cube don't make a 26" electric bike, however they have just released a 42cm frame. This brings the stand-over height down to pretty much the same as that of a 26", 46cm frame.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/382779/products/cube-town-hybrid-one-400-step-th-2018-comfort-electric-hybrid-bike.aspx

Another similar bike would be the Kalkhoff Agattu b7 which comes in that size. Realistically - anyone 5ft over can get on that bike.

https://www.rutlandcycling.com/382632/products/kalkhoff-agattu-b7-2017-electric-hybrid-bike-grey.aspx

If you have any questions please do let me know.

Thankyou for the reply and apologies for delay in responding. I must also apologize for getting my terminology wrong. When I said hub I ment crank ie down by the pedals. Many thanks for the heads up on the Cube 42cm frame and the Kalkhoff Agattu. I will study those two bikes and may well be in touch.

 

[frdedee]

Whilst not meeting your hub motor requirement I know, I have measured my wife's Kalkhoff Agattu 8 speed which was the smallest frame and specified with the smaller 26" wheel option. My wife has her own disability challenges.
The step over measures 240mm [one foot three and three quarter inches]

Its 8 speed Nexus roller clutched hub is very sympathetic to riders abilities, you can change moving or static. This model being fitted with a belt drive instead of a chain removes the oily mess issues those with mobility problems can get into without fully encased chains.

On this forum, the questionable ruggedness of Kalkhoff's motors is frequently voiced, in our case hopefully we can keep clear of this given the very light demands my frail wife is ever likely to place on it. She has put on 300 miles so far in four months of ownership and it runs very nicely and is a bike she can now cope with.

Thank you for your reply. Please note my earlier post about mixing up hub and crank. This forum is not the only place where reservations about Kalkhoffs reliability have been raised. Like you I do not think my daughters usage will be high.
I do not understand you measurements. 240mm is 9.5 inches. If you have a moment could you please clarify. Thanks

 

[frdedee]

Have you considered fitting dropper seat post, would allow her to have both feet firmly on ground when stopped. There are some that easy fitted with wireless remote fitted to handbars.

Thank you for your reply. Dropper seat post is a new terminology for me. I have and idea what they are but I will have to investigate.

 

[frdedee]

Hello Frdedee

I have a similar disability. Right sided hemi paresis is its label. I'm 53 now, but I was once 13. When I was 13 it wasn't so black and white. I was told I was a 'spastic' (hence the nickname, Gaz the spaz). This was back when Scope was the 'Spastics Society' and outside every well meaning shop was a Fibreglass boy, wearing a calliper, with a dog sat by him who had a slot in his head for donations of loose change.
I've done alright. I've delivered training about equality issues. I've done that at both local and national level. I wrote part of the Disability Discrimination Act.
I don't blame them at all. Far from it. But in hindsight, I wish, when I was 13, that my parents had challenged things more. At the time (mid 1970's) it wasn't really the done thing. You didn't challenge a 'Mr' from a London hospital who said 'Gary's doing really well. Come back in six months.'.
I spent a fair while working for a charity who had a lot to do with mobility scooters, wheelchairs, etc.
Can a 13 year old have a powered wheelchair (or an EPIOC)? Why yes, they can. Can a 13 year old have a class three mobility scooter? Why no, they can't. Are the lawmakers worried? No, they are not. Do the Police police the matter? No they do not. Will you be public flogged for looking into an e-bike for your not quite 14 year old daughter? No you will not.
Can this fora and website condone it? Probably not.
I for one say if you can get an ebike that'll suit your daughter, that'll give her a bit of freedom, a bit of choice and control, liberty even. Then go for it, and power to your elbow

Gaz

Great post. Thank you. I have never taken the easy options for my daughter. For example when the disability aid workers came and saw our house to see if things could be adapted to make things easier they wanted me to install ramps all over the place, front and back doors, patio, garden etc. I refused and instead took the time to make sure she could walk up steps unaided. Having an easy option at home is one thing but no preparation for the big bad world.

 

[frdedee]

I need a small bike, being 5'1 and this week tried the Giant Ease-e+ in small which was too big for me and also a Liv Amiti in XS which was a perfect size. I also sat on a Carerra Crossfire-e in size 16 which was a similar size to the XS Liv. I could put my feet comfortably on the ground with all of those. However, I have settled on a Lapierre Overvolt Cross 800W in 41cm. However, all those bikes have bigger wheels I think, but I didn't pay attention to that when I tried them. I was just trying them for comfort and size. Also, I tried a Byocycle in our nearest electric bike shop, and whilst the look of the bike didn't appeal, again, it was a good fit. I'm not sure which exact model it was, but it was one of the ones that has the little wheels and may have even been a folding one.

Thank you for your reply. I have a Giant bike myself, non electric, not the lightest but adequate for the lanes and tracks around here. Their lecky bikes use hub motors, see my post above, I would prefer the crank motor. I will look at the other two makes you have mentioned.

 

[frdedee]

I should have mentioned this in the original post. Her current bike has a step through height of 15” or 380mm any new bike would need to be no greater than that.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I would have thought that the bikes you're thinking of wouldn't be suitable. If she has no stamina, the last thing I'd choose is a bike with a torque multiplying system because she'd get no power when she can't pedal. Instead, I would have thought that a cadence sensor type would be more suitable because you can adjust the power independently from your pedal effort. Also. a hub-motor is likely to give her a much more pleasant ride than a crank-motor.

 

[frdedee]

Well it has been a long time but my daughter finally has an ebike. The Gazelle Balance C7. This has 24” wheels an an incredibly low step through height of just 30 cms and a saddle that goes lower than the 78cm specified. This enables her to stop with both feet flat on the ground but with the angle of the seat post her legs are reasonably extended while cycling.

The panasonic front wheel motor is not ideal as it makes for heavy steering but after a week of familiarization in the netherlands she is getting used to it. She is more than happy only using the lowest assist setting of Eco which with the Gold battery ( charges from very near empty in 3.5 hrs) should give her over a 100k range. She has already racked up rides of over 20k which she could never have done with her old push bike.

My only complaint is with the manual supplied, just a quick start guide. To pay 2k for a bike and have to print the manuals off the web may be the norm but not for me. I dont have a colour printer either.

Bought from Cycling Made Easy in coulsdon surrey who were great with email enquiries, the test ride and subsequent telephone support.

If anyone would like any further details on this bike please dont hesitate to reply here.

Cheers

Andy

 

[frdedee]

I have received an email advising that Nealh has replied to this thread but his post is not visible. Any ideas why?