Electric bike advice, concern re Bosch CX?

[bbqforce10]

I was planning to convert an old bike to an electric bike but my employer is now going to offer the Green Commute Initiative (Cycle to work scheme without £1000 limit) so I can save 32% on a new electric bike.
This combined with a lack of time to do the conversion means I think I am going to get a new bike instead of going the conversion route.

I want the bike to do a 15 mile commute each way. It is mainly on roads/cycle paths with a section on a trail through some woods. There are some quite steep hills (I'm 90kg, fitness is ok(ish!) Originally I was thinking of a hybrid type bike but as it is an electric bike I'm now thinking perhaps I could get an electric mountain bike instead. Ideally I would also like to be able to do a bit of mountain biking (on the moors and local trails) so an electric mountain bike would enable me to do this as well as commute.

I realise it will be a bit of a compromise on road, the large tyres are going to give more rolling resistance, plus the gearing may reduce the top speed, but as it has this electrical assistance maybe this isn't as much of an issue as a conventional bike?

Does this make sense, any advice?

My second question is regarding the Bosch motors.
I've read about the issues with the premature bearing failure on the CX motor and it does put me off buying one. Does anyone know if the 2018 CX motors are the same (from what I gather they are)?

If they are the same then I am thinking it may be better to get one of the new Active Line Plus motors.
They have less power (50nm compared to 80nm with the CX) but I'm wondering if I would really need the extra power?? Plus they are smaller and lighter, latest generation technology and direct drive.

My budget is up to around £2000.
In terms of particular bikes, the Cube range seem good value. I like the look of the Cube Acid Hybrid One 500 29er for £1799
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/148685/products/cube-acid-hybrid-one-500-29er-electric-bike-2018-black.aspx

There is the Cube Reaction Hybrid pro for £2199 but it has the CX motor (with potential issues that puts me off).

Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks

Adam

 

[Rutland Cycling]

Hi Adam,

We sell a lot of the Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro's to customers who are looking for a bike to go to work on, as well as one that they can have a bit of fun on at the weekend. As long as you are buying the 500Wh battery variant you shouldn't have any problems with the range you are looking at doing in a day. The chunkier tyres aren't as bad as you might think road riding, but some people do sometimes swap the tyres for less aggressive ones. With regards to the gearing, the Cube's have a pretty wide range as it is so you won't be affected by the speed much at all.

The 2018 Bosch CX motor's do come with the bearing updated that should solve all the issues they were having. Although, Bosch are very good on their warranty and do get things replaced/fixed in the quickest time out of all the motor suppliers. At Rutland we pride ourselves on the aftersales care of our eBikes and do a free premium service within the first year for you (full strip down and rebuild) to make sure everything is running as it should! and we can even collect and re-deliver the bike to you for £49.99 if you're not local to us.

We do have the Reaction Hybrid Pro's in stock ready to go, and we also accept the Green Commute Initiative! - https://www.rutlandcycling.com/380874/products/cube-reaction-hybrid-pro-500-2018-electric-mountain-bike-black.aspx

If it were myself purchasing, I would go for the Reaction over the Acid as you really will notice the diference in power from the motors, and the CX comes with the new eMTB mode for when you are riding at weekends!

Feel free to give us a call or drop us a PM if you have any further questions on the bikes!

Many thanks,
Luke

 

[EddiePJ]

The 2018 Bosch CX motor's do come with the bearing updated that should solve all the issues they were having.

What bearing update?

 

[anotherkiwi]

You could have a couple of wheelsets with a mid motor bike, one with offroad tyres and the other with Big Bens.

 

[Rutland Cycling]

What bearing update?

Hi EddiePJ,

Some of the CX motors suffered from a premature bearing failure, whilst this was not happening on all the CX motors there was a large number that failed so Bosch have updated the bearing design going forward to prevent the failure. Their warranty is really good though and any motor failures due to the bearing are being sorted very quickly.

We ourselves have not seen much of the bearing failure but it has been noted at other dealers.

Hope this clears things up for you!

Many thanks,
Luke

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What bearing update?

They changed the way the seal is located to make it more robust. It seems that the problem was caused by seal failure, which let water and grit in.

Another thing I heard from some Bosch dealers is that Bosch are looking at the possibility of offering a motor refurb service for motors out of warranty. It's only a 10 minute job to remove a Bosch motor with standard bike tools, so if that service goes ahead, it would be very convenient and would give me a lot more confidence to buy a bike with a Bosch motor. The price I heard is very fair, but nothing has been fixed yet.

At the moment, I'm thinking about all the owners of expensive bikes with expensive non-fixable motors that will pack up sooner or later. It's going to be almost impossible to get a reasonable second hand price when you want to trade for the latest model unless there's a service to provide replacement refurbished motors and batteries at a fair price. At the moment, a three year old bike, which might well need a new battery and motor would cost at least £1100 to sort out, plus all the hassle and shipping costs. That means that a £3000 bike could be almost worthless after three years.

It's not just CX motors that fail, neither is it just Bosch.

 

[footpump]

I have 2016 ktm with bosch active line moter, a while ago spoke to a rep for Raleigh, Raleigh do motus and captus both bosch active line moters,
I asked about the bosch 2018 moters, it was explained older moters with small front sprocket have a bigger internal gear in the moter.

the newer ones have large front chainring, smaller internal gear.
does the bearing failure apply to active line as well , or is it less likely because of 50nm vs 75 on cx .

 

[falmouthtony]

They changed the way the seal is located to make it more robust. It seems that the problem was caused by seal failure, which let water and grit in.

Another thing I heard from some Bosch dealers is that Bosch are looking at the possibility of offering a motor refurb service for motors out of warranty. It's only a 10 minute job to remove a Bosch motor with standard bike tools, so if that service goes ahead, it would be very convenient and would give me a lot more confidence to buy a bike with a Bosch motor. The price I heard is very fair, but nothing has been fixed yet.

At the moment, I'm thinking about all the owners of expensive bikes with expensive non-fixable motors that will pack up sooner or later. It's going to be almost impossible to get a reasonable second hand price when you want to trade for the latest model unless there's a service to provide replacement refurbished motors and batteries at a fair price. At the moment, a three year old bike, which might well need a new battery and motor would cost at least £1100 to sort out, plus all the hassle and shipping costs. That means that a £3000 bike could be almost worthless after three years.

It's not just CX motors that fail, neither is it just Bosch.

It's interesting to hear your take on the bearing situation.

KTM said the following in a different thread - "Independent E Bike Technician" a week or two ago

Replacing the bearing is a VERY simple job that any competent bike shop should be able to do. I know a good number of eBike riders who do it themselves to save bothering the shop. Its just a bearing.

Is that a simple enough answer?

I'm intrigued by these conflicting takes on the Bosch bearing issue.
Is it as above if a bearing issue shows itself after warranty...or not??

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 4366]

KTM got a bit confused. It's very easy to get the motor out, but to replace the bearings, the motor has to be completely disassembled.

Bosch do not recommend that amateurs replace the bearings. They say that you need special equipment to align them, but I reckon that if you're used to replacing such bearings, you should be able to get them in straight. I think they're just a bit worried about ham-fisted dunderheads knocking them in crooked.

 

[Trevormonty]

Hi Adam,

We sell a lot of the Cube Reaction Hybrid Pro's to customers who are looking for a bike to go to work on, as well as one that they can have a bit of fun on at the weekend. As long as you are buying the 500Wh battery variant you shouldn't have any problems with the range you are looking at doing in a day. The chunkier tyres aren't as bad as you might think road riding, but some people do sometimes swap the tyres for less aggressive ones. With regards to the gearing, the Cube's have a pretty wide range as it is so you won't be affected by the speed much at all.

The 2018 Bosch CX motor's do come with the bearing updated that should solve all the issues they were having. Although, Bosch are very good on their warranty and do get things replaced/fixed in the quickest time out of all the motor suppliers. At Rutland we pride ourselves on the aftersales care of our eBikes and do a free premium service within the first year for you (full strip down and rebuild) to make sure everything is running as it should! and we can even collect and re-deliver the bike to you for £49.99 if you're not local to us.

We do have the Reaction Hybrid Pro's in stock ready to go, and we also accept the Green Commute Initiative! - https://www.rutlandcycling.com/380874/products/cube-reaction-hybrid-pro-500-2018-electric-mountain-bike-black.aspx

If it were myself purchasing, I would go for the Reaction over the Acid as you really will notice the diference in power from the motors, and the CX comes with the new eMTB mode for when you are riding at weekends!

Feel free to give us a call or drop us a PM if you have any further questions on the bikes!

Many thanks,
Luke

For equivalent bike with better specs checkout Merida ebig tour 500 or XT, go for 2018 with 500wh better. Air forks and better gearing for offroading. Shimano STEPS has same power as Active Plus but slightly noisier.

 

[falmouthtony]

KTM got a bit confused. It's very easy to get the motor out, but to replace the bearings, the motor has to be completely disassembled.

Bosch do not recommend that amateurs replace the bearings. They say that you need special equipment to align them, but I reckon that if you're used to replacing such bearings, you should be able to get them in straight. I think they're just a bit worried about ham-fisted dunderheads knocking them in crooked.

Thanks for that.

Still a problem then if, like me, you don't have the specialist tools or the confidence, to do the job.

And, as I understand it, bosch dealers don't stock the bearings.

 

[bbqforce10]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

I totally agree. Customers need to have confidence that their bikes can be fixed outside of the warranty period. With their considerable cost, customers are going to become more and more concerned with their second-hand value. Just like purchasing a car. It is the cost of ownership I consider rather than just the purchase price.

Hopefully, the manufacturers will realise this. An effective repair service (via authorised dealers and/or independents) for their used bikes will help to maintain the secondhand value and consequently help existing owners upgrade and give new customers to confidence to chose their brand over competitors.

In the meantime, I'm still unsure of which motor to go for! Has anyone used the Shimano Steps M8000. I've seen a Focus Bold² Plus with this motor. Are there any known issues with this?

thanks

 

[Trevormonty]

Only issue I've heard of is overheat alarm if doing big climbs in Boost mode. Not a reliability issue more performance issue.