Electric bicycles overview?

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Either somewhere on the forum's stickies, or elsewhere on the web, is there a beginner's guide to electric bicycles?

Coming at it as a complete novice, I wasn't even aware (for example) that not all electric bikes had a throttle mechanism - as a lifelong car/motorbike driver, I just assumed that a throttle would be standard.

So, what I need is an overview of the bikes, from the ground up, aimed at a (hopefully) intelligent beginner.


Thanks.


Allen.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
while waiting for some intelligence.

European regs do not allow throttles and UK regs will probably change soon. but if you have a throttle the change in law will not be retrospective.

mainly two types of bikes, throttle assist hub motors, from the likes of alien and wisper and crank drive (no throttle) from the likes of Kalkhoff and E motion.

I prefer a throttle but could easily live without one if necessary...so not the end of the world either way
 

Bigbee

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 12, 2008
445
1
Ha! Read your name quickly and thought it said Alien, I need glasses! I thought it was them doing some market research.You'll find plenty of answers to your questions if you trawl the site.Theres's newbies arriving all the time with the same questions.
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Bigbee: I have the same trouble with Allen/Alien. Perhaps one of us should change it.


Allien.
 

spudhed

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 1, 2010
7
0
while waiting for some intelligence.

European regs do not allow throttles and UK regs will probably change soon. but if you have a throttle the change in law will not be retrospective.
thats just plain stupid, surely we (ie governments/councils etc) should be doing all they can to get people on to greener transport, sure its not totally green as it uses electric but its a very nice in road for lazy gits like me, maybe after a year or so on the assisted ill be a little fitter and could even consider a normal bike (unlikely with the hills round here but you never know)

but i suppose itll probably come about that there will be some sort of test and licencing scheme so they can wring yet more cash out of people :mad:
that said what are the chances that youre going to get pulled over on a pushbike, even an electric?
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
that said what are the chances that youre going to get pulled over on a pushbike, even an electric?
not much I guess but more if not peddling up hill:D
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Either somewhere on the forum's stickies, or elsewhere on the web, is there a beginner's guide to electric bicycles?
I don't know of any good guide Allen, the lack of one is partly because e-bike design hasn't settled down and there are many variants on the way they work and their batteries. Here's a brief overview that might help.

The regulations which will be effective within about one year are 250 watts maximum continuous power which will be only available while pedalling (pedelec), motor assist speed limit 15 mph. The present regulations provide that power is permissible without pedalling (e-bike) and the change in law will not be retrospective for existing bikes. The term e-bike is however commonly used for all types.

Although the continuous power limit rating is 250 watts, this is a form of average rating, legal motors can peak at up to 700 watts or more, and this peak power can vary considerably between models. The more powerful, the shorter the range for any given battery size of course.

Types. The great majority of e-bikes have either wheel hub motors or those which drive through the same chain as the cyclist. Dealing with those separately:

Hub motors can be direct drive, that is the motor drives at the same speed as the wheel and is quiet and simple, or have internal gearing reduction which is better for hill climbing for any given power though not so quiet at times. Most on the UK market are that second internally geared type. However, these are all single geared being effectively in top gear only, no motor "change down" for hills, though the cyclist still has their gears. Hub motors are found in bikes at all price levels.

Chain drive motors can be complete units which integrate the bicycle bottom bracket within them like the Panasonic unit which has a small sprocket after the chainwheel which pulls the chain through. All bikes with these are in the upper price ranges. Alternatively they can bolt onto existing bikes in various ways like the Cyclone units. Since these chain drive units use the bicycle's own gearing, they are ideal for very steep hills for which one "changes down" gears for the motor as well, just as with a car.

Which type of motor system is very much to do with personal preference, it's always advisable to try both if both are within your price range.

Batteries are a very important consideration, since they can be very expensive and are by far the largest part of the running costs. They mostly come in 24 volts or 36 volts, and the 36 volt types are generally more powerful though this isn't for any technical reason. Their capacity, i.e, the amount of energy they hold is measured in Ampere Hours (Ah), the more Ah, the longer the range for any given motor power.

There are three main types of battery.

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) are the cheapest at under £100 replacement and last for around a year to 18 months, but they are very heavy, usually shorter range and mostly only on the cheapest bikes now, so quite rarely used.

Nickel-Metal-Hydride (NiMh) are also quite rarely used now, are a lot lighter and can last for up to four years, though with range greatly reduced by then. They are very roughly about two to three times the price of SLA.

Lithium batteries in various types are now the most common. They are the dearest, mostly last around two years, but are the lightest and most convenient in use, these benefits offsetting the costs. The different types are usually shown as Li-ion, Li-Polymer or LiFePO4.

Origins. Most e-bikes and motors at all price levels are made in China, but there is a substantial European industry based mostly in Germany and The Netherlands, though there are the odd French and Spanish manufacturers. European e-bikes all fall into the upper price brackets as you might expect.

Variants. Some items dont fall into the above main classifications. One "geared" hub motor design uses rollers instead of cogs so is very quiet. There are a couple of examples of "outboard" motors that drive the rear wheel via chain or belt on the opposite side to the bike's chain. One company oddly uses an SCiB battery which isn't very suitable for e-bikes. It's sometimes best to be wary of variants, seek advice before considering them.

The Market. There are so many makes and models on the market that I cannot give a list, best just shop around and try those that members recommend.

I hope this "quicky" guide is of some use to you.
.
 
Last edited:

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Yes indeed, Flecc, it is most useful, and thanks for the time and effort.

I do get a bit frustrated by most electric bike suppliers on this level: they tend only to give a few bullet-point-type indications for each machine, rather than anything like a full technical spec. from which even a beginner could glean useful information.

I suppose I shall just have to bang away asking basic questions, like
why most bikes only have 6 gears (although I can see the point on chain-driven systems),
why they all seem to come with tractor tyres (I think you call them nobblers, no?),
and very important points like
can you transport an electric bike on its side (i.e. with the battery on ITS side too), and
can you turn the bike upside down for maintenance purposes (so the battery is upside down!)

I have a notion that the upside-down battery might cause problems...

Allen.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
No problems Allen, here's the answers:

I suppose I shall just have to bang away asking basic questions, like
why most bikes only have 6 gears (although I can see the point on chain-driven systems),
Rear hub motors have to use multi-sprocket freewheels and not cassettes since they often use larger diameter spindles (to carry the wires internally out from the motor, 12mm instead of 10 mm) that won't fit into cassettes. These freewheels aren't available in a big range and tend to be weak when with many sprockets due to only having inboard bearings. Also, the continuing motor drive can help bridge the gear gaps. Chain drive type bikes usually have plenty of gears, either hub gears up to 14 speed or conventional cassette derailleurs.

why they all seem to come with tractor tyres (I think you call them nobblers, no?),
The curse of fashion! More expensive bikes often have much better tyres though, it's mostly the cheap stuff that has "knobblies".

can you transport an electric bike on its side (i.e. with the battery on ITS side too), and
can you turn the bike upside down for maintenance purposes (so the battery is upside down!)
Yes and Yes, batteries can be oriented in any way at any time, in use as well. The electrolyte is always in paste or solid form. That said, it's usual to take the battery out when turning the bike over since removing some kilos makes it easier.
.
 

trickletreat

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
122
0
I don't know of any good guide Allen, the lack of one is partly because e-bike design hasn't settled down and there are many variants on the way they work and their batteries. Here's a brief overview that might help.

The regulations which will be effective within about one year are 250 watts maximum continuous power which will be only available while pedalling (pedelec), motor assist speed limit 15 mph. The present regulations provide that power is permissible without pedalling (e-bike) and the change in law will not be retrospective for existing bikes. The term e-bike is however commonly used for all types.

Although the continuous power limit rating is 250 watts, this is a form of average rating, legal motors can peak at up to 700 watts or more, and this peak power can vary considerably between models. The more powerful, the shorter the range for any given battery size of course.

Types. The great majority of e-bikes have either wheel hub motors or those which drive through the same chain as the cyclist. Dealing with those separately:

Hub motors can be direct drive, that is the motor drives at the same speed as the wheel and is quiet and simple, or have internal gearing reduction which is better for hill climbing for any given power though not so quiet at times. Most on the UK market are that second internally geared type. However, these are all single geared being effectively in top gear only, no motor "change down" for hills, though the cyclist still has their gears. Hub motors are found in bikes at all price levels.

Chain drive motors can be complete units which integrate the bicycle bottom bracket within them like the Panasonic unit which has a small sprocket after the chainwheel which pulls the chain through. All bikes with these are in the upper price ranges. Alternatively they can bolt onto existing bikes in various ways like the Cyclone units. Since these chain drive units use the bicycle's own gearing, they are ideal for very steep hills for which one "changes down" gears for the motor as well, just as with a car.

Which type of motor system is very much to do with personal preference, it's always advisable to try both if both are within your price range.

Batteries are a very important consideration, since they can be very expensive and are by far the largest part of the running costs. They mostly come in 24 volts or 36 volts, and the 36 volt types are generally more powerful though this isn't for any technical reason. Their capacity, i.e, the amount of energy they hold is measured in Ampere Hours (Ah), the more Ah, the longer the range for any given motor power.

There are three main types of battery.

Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) are the cheapest at under £100 replacement and last for around a year to 18 months, but they are very heavy, usually shorter range and mostly only on the cheapest bikes now, so quite rarely used.

Nickel-Metal-Hydride (NiMh) are also quite rarely used now, are a lot lighter and can last for up to four years, though with range greatly reduced by then. They are very roughly about two to three times the price of SLA.

Lithium batteries in various types are now the most common. They are the dearest, mostly last around two years, but are the lightest and most convenient in use, these benefits offsetting the costs. The different types are usually shown as Li-ion, Li-Polymer or LiFePO4.

Origins. Most e-bikes and motors at all price levels are made in China, but there is a substantial European industry based mostly in Germany and The Netherlands, though there are the odd French and Spanish manufacturers. European e-bikes all fall into the upper price brackets as you might expect.

Variants. Some items dont fall into the above main classifications. One "geared" hub motor design uses rollers instead of cogs so is very quiet. There are a couple of examples of "outboard" motors that drive the rear wheel via chain or belt on the opposite side to the bike's chain. One company oddly uses an SCiB battery which isn't very suitable for e-bikes. It's sometimes best to be wary of variants, seek advice before considering them.

The Market. There are so many makes and models on the market that I cannot give a list, best just shop around and try those that members recommend.

I hope this "quicky" guide is of some use to you.
.
Great post, and if made into a 'sticky', would answer many questions, and with no maker affiliation to boot.
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Thanks for the continuing help.

In some ways I can't wait to get hold of my first electric bike, but I think a couple of months of reflection and intelligence-gathering will be a good thing.


Allen.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Thanks for the continuing help.

In some ways I can't wait to get hold of my first electric bike, but I think a couple of months of reflection and intelligence-gathering will be a good thing.

Allen.
Very wise Allen, too few do that. Do try to get some test rides at any opportunity. The hub motor and chain drive types are often very different in character and the way they work. It can be a "Marmite" thing.
.
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
I will certainly try for some test rides, although for no good reason NW London seems to be a bit ill-served for bike shops stocking electrics. Is there a sticky here with a dealer list??

One VERY specific query I have, which I think can be answered in print rather than on the road, is this:

My disability (one leg gorn) doesn't worry me overly, at least not when riding my bike. The one time it is a major problem is starting from rest ON A HILL. Then, if I can't go sideways across the hill to get going, I am stuffed, and usually end up walking up to the next flat(-ish) bit.

I can see how a throttle-controlled bike would help in those circumstances, i.e. sit on bike, push with foot as usual, twist throttle to give impetus, and once I'm doing 3 mph I'm away pedalling.

But would the same apply to a NON-throttle-controlled machine? If not, then it's one choice that's been made for me...


Allen.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
ETS have a branch in Camden...and there are other shops, electric bike shed and Biccelatta N London as well I think........
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Most hub motor bikes won't differ either way Allen, since they are the type which incorporate sensors that signal the controler to enable power from a standstill. However, some have a simpler arrangement which means its necessary to pedal off the mark to about 3 mph for power to kick in. In practice that can mean a turn or two of the pedals without help.

However, although torque is high, hub motors don't have much power from a standstill, their real power tends to come in from about 7/8 mph, remember what I said about them being effectively in top gear all the time. If you are a driver you'll appreciate what it would be like pulling away in top gear in a car.

So if choosing a hub motor bike, go for a powerful one that pulls away from a standstill and don't necessarily worry about it having a throttle or not.

Bikes with the Panasonic unit work very differently, They are controlled by the pedal pressure and can give a real surge in power off the mark when the rider gives a single thrust on the pedals. This makes them ideal for that, but on the other hand, they work to a ratio of rider input. In standard mode the motor matches the rider input 1 to 1, in high power mode it can be either 1.3 to 1 or 1.5 to 1, depending on the make and model. This means you always have to pedal to get power and you must make a contribution to the power needed in any given circumstance. But they drive through the bike gears which means a slower climb is always an option when much less power is needed, full power available at any speed, unlike with hub motors.

You will appreciate the differences more when you try each type of course.

P.S. ETS is Electric Transport Shop.

50cycles the Panasonic equipped Kalkhoff bike agents can organise a test ride in SW London if you contact them on this link, scroll down for Tim's number etc.
.
 
Last edited:

simonbarnett

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 26, 2007
338
25
West Hampstead, NW London
I will certainly try for some test rides, although for no good reason NW London seems to be a bit ill-served for bike shops stocking electrics. Is there a sticky here with a dealer list??

Another is Vita Electric in Hampstead, though their stock is usually a bit pricey. Where in NW London are you?
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Thanks for the answers, which I will try to digest. Any English events/shows/get-togethers in the offing?


Kingsbury. (Where??) Between Wembley and Hendon.


(Kingsbury: the gateway to Hendon. Now that's got a ring to it).


A.