EBMA files an anti dumping complaint on chinese e-bikes.

[anotherkiwi]

In the EU outside of the Netherlands and Denmark e-bikes are probably mostly used for leisure by the young (?) and by retired people. I don't think the EBMA is interested in clean transport at all. So they want to preserve their small market of large profit margin bikes - eMTB for example. What the world really needs right now is an e-bike in every home to replace the second car. When the EBMA wakes up to this fact it will be too late, for them, for the planet...

 

[topographer]

They really are desperate Dave, they know the Chinese are going to take them head on with better Tech and better faster building techniques over the next few years. It’s not the small to medium sized builders that are worried. It’s one or two mega manufacturers who currently have 25% of the market, they are despatate to try and control the entire market. Let’s hope the commission sees through thier pleading.

If they don’t create an unfair playing field now, they will become less of a force in the future.

You don't think the allegations of diverse subsidising practices are true then?

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://www.bafang-e.com/en/news/news/anti-dumping-statement.html

 

[Wisper Bikes]

You don't think the allegations of diverse subsidising practices are true then?

There is no doubt that some Chinese factories have had help opening up shop and proving local jobs. All Governments anywhere the world will do this. Grants available in Europe are very substantial.

The question is whether the Chinese firms gain an unfair advantage. We hope to prove that they don’t.

I heard at the meeting that the majority of components in the superb Bosch ebike motors come from China. Where does that leave them?

All the best, David

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I heard at the meeting that the majority of components in the superb Bosch ebike motors come from China. Where does that leave them?

The problem is the EU want you to assemble the bikes in the EU, they don't care where the component parts come from, its the labour they want here so you employ people in the EU, not China.

Most bike parts on most bikes come from the Far East. The EU doesn't want the dirty factory that makes them, it wants the labour hours for assembling them.

I'm not sure what the arguments are, but if you look at what they are trying to achieve as the end result it does help.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The Chinese are cleaning up factories faster than any other country in the world, they should be supported. I know of two big frame painters that have been closed down until thier filter systems are up to scratch. This harsh attitude is brilliant, if only we were as tough. One of the has spent over £3m on new air cleaners and have now reopened.

But that’s not the argument. The EBMA are saying that Chinese are unfairly supported. This is not the case.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Sorry that wasn't meant to be a criticism of the factories, I meant it as a statement about manufacturing generally. We've shipped a lot of the "dirty" stuff out of Europe to the Far East, and what we have left here is in the most cases assembly lines. (I know this is a generalisation)

This measure by the EU, can be discussed in a host of ways and I'm not really sure if I'm for or against it personally, I'm just used to it because its effected bikes for as long as I've worked in the industry. So to be honest as eBikes grew and the "bike" brands got involved I saw this as being pretty inevitable.

However the end result is that you'll simply need to do what the bike brands already do, which is source the components / frames from the best factories in the world and then turn it into a bike inside the EU. This way you minimise your tariff liability, and maximise the amount of labour costs that are paid within the EU.

I don't really see what the problem is? You'll only be moving the labour bit, and it'll reduce lots of other head aches won't it?

 

[Woosh]

I don't really see what the problem is? You'll only be moving the labour bit, and it'll reduce lots of other head aches won't it?

more financial commitment to setup an assembly line.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Col, as I mentioned in a previous post. I have been working with my team in China for years now. I trust them and we have a great freindship. Why should these genuine pioneers of the ebike industry be cut out because of the greed of a few big European assemblers? The Chinese were developing and building Ebikes long before the EBMA members had even thought of producing them.

I can build bikes in Europe at the same price as in China and will probably have to do so. It will take longer to get bikes built and ties up my funds for longer. If I have a problem with any components, I have to ship them back to China instead of a few miles away. It’s so much more efficient to produce the bikes near to where the parts are made. Assembly in Europe is simply less efficient.

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

Why should these genuine pioneers of the ebike industry be cut out because of the greed of a few big European assemblers?

but they are not going to be cut out are they?
their job will have to change, but the relationship will survive.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Why should we be forced into changing anything?

 

[Woosh]

Why should we be forced into changing anything?

natural evolution / adaptation.
the EU as an economic model won't survive in the free for all capitalism where producers look for lowest production cost.
It needs to protect its producers in order to encourage and maintain higher standards.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

No need to adapt or evolve when what we have works. Protectionism has never and will never work on simple machines like Bicycles. If China is forced out a cheaper manufacturing base will fill the vacuum. This happened with ordinary bicycles and will happen with eBikes.

 

[Woosh]

No need to adapt or evolve when what we have works. Protectionism has never and will never work on simple machines like Bicycles. If China is forced out a cheaper manufacturing base will fill the vacuum. This happened with ordinary bicycles and will happen with eBikes.

protectionism is what made the EU a success.
If another country steps into the gap, then the EBMA will simply target their new enemy.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

They failed with normal bikes and will eventually fail with Ebikes, even if they win the first round.

 

[Woosh]

I thought you may be interested to know that we imported one lot this week as parts for assembling in Southend.
The average duty on the lot is about 4.5% instead of 6% but we ot hit for anti-dumping duty on the crankset and gearset (HS code 8714963090), bringing the average duty back up to 5%.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for the heads up. We need to make certain that the antidumping duty does not get extended to all parts.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I thought you may be interested to know that we imported one lot this week as parts for assembling in Southend.
The average duty on the lot is about 4.5% instead of 6% but we ot hit for anti-dumping duty on the crankset and gearset (HS code 8714963090), bringing the average duty back up to 5%.

Who makes those in the EU? Campagnolo and a lot of tiny companies specialised in niche markets who sell them for the price of a whole bike?

On bike Europe they have some stats for 2017 where there was a 20% + spike in e-bikes from China priced on average at 550€ or so. Look as I might I can't see many EU made e-bikes sold for less than 999€.

The cheapest BH is 1500€. I cite them because labour costs are very low in Spain.

 

[malkie0831]

Who makes those in the EU?

That's not the point is it?
The EU sees China giving subsidies to their own manufacturers which makes their products cheaper, so they think that charging an import tax will level the playing field.
If only it worked like that...

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

They failed with normal bikes and will eventually fail with Ebikes, even if they win the first round.

I'm not sure what you mean, by they failed with normal bikes?

Trek, Giant, Cannondale, Cube in fact all the big bike brands assemble a high % their bikes inside the EU. The fast majority of bikes sold in bike shops in the UK are EU built.