not really, but the fact people seem to think that means May's objective was achieved.One step closer this morning.
EBMA files an anti dumping complaint on chinese e-bikes.
- Thread starter Kudoscycles
- Start date
Yes, with the transition period only four more years now!One step closer this morning
The public will be heartily sick of Brexit long before that, most are pretty fed up with it now.
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Hi Dave, Kudos Dave is correct, it came from an article in Bike Europe. The figure was based on a calculation that took into account the prices of bikes and bike manufacture in Switzerland, the range of ADT they were discussing was between just over 190% and nearly 400%.
I don't want to be over optimistic but the argument against ADT is gaining a lot of ground. The problem is that none of us can risk the possibility that it will come in and then be back dated to July 10th 2018 for the reasons Kudos Dave mentions.
The EBMA can be pleased with the results though, in China everyone is absolutely flat out with record numbers of orders and all the parts suppliers are already overstretched. Shimano parts for instance are almost impossible to get hold of and frame manufacture is completely booked out, fortunately I have a few thousand frames in stock! I have already heard of one well known name in the UK that have had their orders for 2018 refused. The Chinese factories think all their Christmases have come at once!
The knock on effect will be that there will be a glut of ebikes available in the spring and a dearth in the autumn.
It is a level playing field Col. That's the point we are making. Chinese manufacturers are not subsidised any more than European manufacturers are.
Not me, just one of many more hurdles cleared up. Along way to go yet.
So why aren't you building bikes in the EU/UK?
But I also mean level playing field - bikes v eBikes.
Nothing has really changed...its just more, we'll put things off in the hope public opinion has changed by the time we have to actually commit to something... and I give you Aaron Banks to confirm this.
Our co-founder, Arron Banks' response to today's Brexit deal announcement:
"It's confirmed, Theresa May has betrayed the country and the 17.4 million Leave voters.
"This traitorous, lily-livered embarrassment of a prime minister has just overseen the biggest sell-out of this country since 'Paedo Ted' signed us up to the European project in 1973.
"Full regulatory alignment with the Internal Market and Customs Union? We may as well just bend over and allow the European Union to have its way with us for years to come.
"Pledging to honour financial commitments beyond 2020? Brussels would have been lucky had we agreed to honour them up until March 2019!
"Under Theresa May, we are leaving the European Union in name only. If anyone in the Conservative Party has any integrity or sense of duty left, we call on them now to save Brexit by triggering a leadership contest.
"Tory backbenchers, get writing to the 1922 Committee and help save your country. She has got to go!"
Have a read of the Leave.EU facebook page. Its hilarious this morning.
I have tried to hire people in the UK to build bikes and cannot find anyone. I was offering £18,000 for an apprentice bike builder but didn't get one response.
More importantly, I have known and trusted the Chinese guys I am working with for 12 years. We have built the business together, they are my friends. I would like to stay with them.
They are involved on my behalf with the motor, controller and battery builders. All of whom are based in Kunshan within an hours drive of my assembly plant. We have built a unique system together and believe we have one of the best drive systems available, huge torque and completely silent with the ability for a rider to switch from torque sensor drive to cadence sensor only. Our bikes are unique.
We are currently designing in Kunshan our new range of bikes for 2019, again they are unique, very different from our current bikes. The new Wisper folding bike for instance is 12kg, incredibly easy to fold and move and does not look at all like an electric bike. We employ designers pinched from Giant who work in the Kunshan office. I have to change everything I have built up over the last twelve years? For what?
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you have to pay at least a living wage + 10% to have any hope of retaining a good guy.
Exactly as I've been repeatedly forecasting, a sham leave which will gradually dissolve into invisibility.
Convenient isn't it that the Great Repeal Bill writes all the existing EU legislation into UK law, just what's wanted if remaining.
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I agree, and we do pay well, you would be surprised. We needed an apprentice to work with my three tech guys and learn the industry. I felt £10.00 per hour was good.
These rates are for the National Living Wage and the National Minimum Wage. The rates change every April.
Year 2017
25 and over £7.50 21 to 24 £7.05 18 to 20 £5.60 Under 18 £4.05 Apprentice £3.50
Apprentices
Apprentices are entitled to the apprentice rate if they’re either:
- aged under 19
- aged 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship
An apprentice aged 22 in the first year of their apprenticeship is entitled to a minimum hourly rate of £3.50
Apprentices are entitled to the minimum wage for their age if they both:
- are aged 19 or over
- have completed the first year of their apprenticeship
An apprentice aged 22 who has completed the first year of their apprenticeship is entitled to a minimum hourly rate of £7.05
that guide does not reflect the living cost in the South East. For example, our cost is not far off £12.50 an hour for our 21 year old warehouse assistant. (£10 / hour basic pay + 9% holiday allowance + 12% national insurance contribution)
We were offering the same for a completely unqualified apprentice. I dont understand what your point is?
£18,000 per annum is less than £10/h. Where you are, the housing cost is even higher than Southend. I reckon you'd need to pay £19k-£20k minimum to have any chance of retaining a good guy, otherwise, he'll walk within months.
Level playing field?
I have cut and pasted a section of a press release issued by LEVA who are assisting us in the battle against the unfair ADT. It explains our position rater well, if a little longwindedly...
"Having read the complaint, LEVA-EU has concluded that this initiative is not aimed at growing the market. It is an attempt to ensure a bigger piece of the market for some parties. For that purpose, the popular and currently well-used tactic of “us” against “them” is put in position. AD643 is meant to be read as a battle of European manufacturers against Chinese manufacturers. So, their assumption is: if you are European, you know which camp to support, because that is the camp that provides economic growth, jobs, etc. What’s more, they believe that as a European you should fight against the Chinese manufacturers. They believe their sole purpose is to kill off the European manufacturers, take all production to China and leave Europe with, yet another, economic and industrial wasteland.
Golden opportunity
LEVA-EU rather believes that there is a golden opportunity, which is far more real than the risks outlined by European manufacturers, but which unfortunately remains largely untapped. Perhaps in 1993 the world was effectively still that simple. But today, 24 years later, the world has changed beyond imagination. The old demarcation separating “us” from “them” has become meaningless. European manufacturers are importing components from outside Europe on an unprecedented scale. Some are, in addition to their own assembly, also importing complete electric bicycles.
Globalization and Internet have yielded so much more than just some opportunistic imports of cheap e-bikes. There are new entrepreneurs coming into the business, who are developing innovative and disruptive ideas and business models. They no longer abide by the traditional supply chains but work on principles, which are driven by developments and technologies based on new concepts such as mobility as a service. They shop around the world for components and assembly, whilst devising business models that include leasing, sharing, conventional sales which combine points of sales, Internet, home delivery, … They are flexible, open-minded and very aware that they are working with a golden opportunity in the framework of issues such as mobility, transport, air quality, public health, etc.
Light Electric Vehicle Association in the European Union Wrong enemy Companies that keep clinging to old industrial adages are missing out on this golden opportunity. They have a quality product that sells well, and the objective is to stretch this success to a maximum. However, today, the world is moving too fast for such conservatism. With all due respect, Europe does not need any conferences on and initiatives about bringing production back to the old continent. Europe needs conferences and initiatives on R&D, on innovating business models, on how to push LEV uptake, on how to encourage/help start-ups, on how to cooperate with the scientific/academic world, on setting up alliances with cities and citizens’ organizations, … And should that result in the conclusion that it may be useful to start up production in Europe, fine. But not defying all economic reality by bringing back production just out of nostalgia. Ironically, in trying to preserve their position, these companies attack the wrong enemy. Importers, overseas producers, new companies applying new business models, … they are not the enemy.
Growing the market Whilst the European industry files anti-dumping complaints and works hard to keep existing measures in place, an ever growing peloton of cities in Europe limits, sometimes even pushes combustion engine vehicles out. Every congestion charge, every low emission zone, every SUMP is a gift to the LEV-business. New markets are being opened, for free, every day all over Europe. But instead of tapping on that ever growing potential, a dumping complaint is filed, which prevents all parties in the sector to work on that potential. Dumping cases are so time-consuming that hardly any time is left to do the work that really needs doing. LEVA-EU is trying to do that: work for better technical regulations, ask for attention in policies relevant to LEVAs, in European subsidy programmes, work to inform companies on the rules and on the market, …. Our ultimate objective is to prove how counter-productive it is to use trade defence instruments for purposes other than what they are really meant for. If LEVA-EU can achieve that by supporting companies going against this counterproductive initiative, then we improve chances to get the whole sector around the table and start a serious discussion about how to grow the market for all instead of making only some pieces of the cake bigger.
We are open for any exchange of views on this LEVA-position.
Annick Roetynck, LEVA-EU Manager"
Brilliant.
All the best, David
I have cut and pasted a section of a press release issued by LEVA who are assisting us in the battle against the unfair ADT. It explains our position rater well, if a little longwindedly...
"Having read the complaint, LEVA-EU has concluded that this initiative is not aimed at growing the market. It is an attempt to ensure a bigger piece of the market for some parties. For that purpose, the popular and currently well-used tactic of “us” against “them” is put in position. AD643 is meant to be read as a battle of European manufacturers against Chinese manufacturers. So, their assumption is: if you are European, you know which camp to support, because that is the camp that provides economic growth, jobs, etc. What’s more, they believe that as a European you should fight against the Chinese manufacturers. They believe their sole purpose is to kill off the European manufacturers, take all production to China and leave Europe with, yet another, economic and industrial wasteland.
Golden opportunity
LEVA-EU rather believes that there is a golden opportunity, which is far more real than the risks outlined by European manufacturers, but which unfortunately remains largely untapped. Perhaps in 1993 the world was effectively still that simple. But today, 24 years later, the world has changed beyond imagination. The old demarcation separating “us” from “them” has become meaningless. European manufacturers are importing components from outside Europe on an unprecedented scale. Some are, in addition to their own assembly, also importing complete electric bicycles.
Globalization and Internet have yielded so much more than just some opportunistic imports of cheap e-bikes. There are new entrepreneurs coming into the business, who are developing innovative and disruptive ideas and business models. They no longer abide by the traditional supply chains but work on principles, which are driven by developments and technologies based on new concepts such as mobility as a service. They shop around the world for components and assembly, whilst devising business models that include leasing, sharing, conventional sales which combine points of sales, Internet, home delivery, … They are flexible, open-minded and very aware that they are working with a golden opportunity in the framework of issues such as mobility, transport, air quality, public health, etc.
Light Electric Vehicle Association in the European Union Wrong enemy Companies that keep clinging to old industrial adages are missing out on this golden opportunity. They have a quality product that sells well, and the objective is to stretch this success to a maximum. However, today, the world is moving too fast for such conservatism. With all due respect, Europe does not need any conferences on and initiatives about bringing production back to the old continent. Europe needs conferences and initiatives on R&D, on innovating business models, on how to push LEV uptake, on how to encourage/help start-ups, on how to cooperate with the scientific/academic world, on setting up alliances with cities and citizens’ organizations, … And should that result in the conclusion that it may be useful to start up production in Europe, fine. But not defying all economic reality by bringing back production just out of nostalgia. Ironically, in trying to preserve their position, these companies attack the wrong enemy. Importers, overseas producers, new companies applying new business models, … they are not the enemy.
Growing the market Whilst the European industry files anti-dumping complaints and works hard to keep existing measures in place, an ever growing peloton of cities in Europe limits, sometimes even pushes combustion engine vehicles out. Every congestion charge, every low emission zone, every SUMP is a gift to the LEV-business. New markets are being opened, for free, every day all over Europe. But instead of tapping on that ever growing potential, a dumping complaint is filed, which prevents all parties in the sector to work on that potential. Dumping cases are so time-consuming that hardly any time is left to do the work that really needs doing. LEVA-EU is trying to do that: work for better technical regulations, ask for attention in policies relevant to LEVAs, in European subsidy programmes, work to inform companies on the rules and on the market, …. Our ultimate objective is to prove how counter-productive it is to use trade defence instruments for purposes other than what they are really meant for. If LEVA-EU can achieve that by supporting companies going against this counterproductive initiative, then we improve chances to get the whole sector around the table and start a serious discussion about how to grow the market for all instead of making only some pieces of the cake bigger.
We are open for any exchange of views on this LEVA-position.
Annick Roetynck, LEVA-EU Manager"
Brilliant.
All the best, David
That idea now looks impossible today,after May caved in to all the EU demands,it appears that regulatory alignment means we stay in the single market and the customs union.
I dont blame May she was being pressured from every faction and got very little support from the hard Brexiters in her own party.
For me,I am pleased we can now see we are heading for the softish of Brexits.
KudosDave
innovation can only come about if we do a lot more than PDI the bikes made in China.
that's why a modest anti dumping duty would restore a small advantage for local producers.
I have been thinking of assembling e-bikes here in Southend for years but the extra cost (about £75 per bike) does not make the idea viable. I reckon 10%-15% extra duty on fully assembled Chinese e-bikes would make it viable.
I believe it was Rockefeller who said he made all his money by getting in late and getting out early.
One of my US suppliers has never developed a product in his life,yet he is one of the wealthiest guys in the states,he pointed out to me that R&D is expensive.
KudosDave
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