Ebike with Twist and Go Required

[DorsetDave]

I am 75 yrs old and have had the same ebike for 7 years. I am now looking for another up to £2000 My existing bike has Twist and Go which at my age and disability I have found invaluable,particularly at starting off from lights, pushing up steps, or going through gates off road etc etc. I keep getting told that twist and go is now illegal for new bikes. However I contacted my MP about this and he got hold of the MfT who told him this is not the case. The new rules which came out on 1st Jan 2016 allow for twist and go as the UK has special dispensation from the EU as long as the bike is 'Type Approved'
But no retailer I have approached seem to know about this - or are just not interested. If you think about it the group in society who most benefit an ebike are those who are Disabled or Elderly. Therefore Twist and Go is essential for them. The MfT recognised this and had representations from Disabled groups and Elderly Charities asking for Twist and Go to be included in the new Regs [ which as we know came about in an attempt to unify our rules with those of the EU]

Therefore I am still looking for a bike with twist and go [ or even one with the facility just to give one a push off to start with from standing] My other requirements are that I want to be able to travel at least 40 miles whilst pedalling [ I never use twist and go for power alone anyway] . I know there are a great many variables about the range of an electric battery and I have always found manufacturers unbelievably over optimistic about how far their bikes/batteries will go. I live in a reasonably flat area but do much of my cycling off road on gravel tracks. I am hoping to get a bike with at least 500 watt hours. I am 6ft 1 in tall and weigh 15 stone. The other thing I am looking for are disc brakes on both wheels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[Electric Transport Shop]

Hi Dorset Dave, We sat down with the DfT in 2012 along with BEBA and shared our concerns about the inclusiveness of the twist and go function and it became clear that type approval would be the only route to keep it.
The problem is that type approval costs a lot of money and it needs to be done for every model with a twist and go function. The bike I believe that can meet your requirements would be from the Wisper range: https://amps.bike/wisper-electric-bikes/ - disc brakes front and back - larger battery option etc. The twist and go function can be activated but would mean it no longer complies with current regs.
Wisper probably have a dealer near you. If not our Bristol store would be the closest: https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/bristolstore
Give them a tinkle on Phone: 01179 734046 and let them know what you'd like to try.
KR
Eddie

 

[flecc]

The new rules which came out on 1st Jan 2016 allow for twist and go as the UK has special dispensation from the EU as long as the bike is 'Type Approved'

But no retailer I have approached seem to know about this - or are just not interested.

This is because there is no special dispensation from the EU and there is no type approval class for pedelecs.

What has happened is that our DfT in passing the EU type pedelec regulations has indicated that it intends to introduce a UK use only type approval class for EAPCs (pedelecs) with throttles. They have since indicated that will be in January 2018.

Meanwhile any new e-bikes produced or imported between 6th April 2015 when the EU type law was introduced and the eventual type approval class cannot be legally used in the UK if fited with full acting throttles.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Eddie,

Hi Dave, we have a few full twist and go bikes available left from last year.

All our bikes have a twist and go throttle up to 4mph and whilst the pedals are turning the throttle will work up to 15.5mph. They have been approved and certified to EN15194, the European standard.

The Wisper Torque models have the above plus a sensor in the main pedal bearing that reads when and how much pressure you put on either pedal. Depending on the pressure put onto the pedals, the motor will immediately give you assistance, light pressure - low assistance, heavy pressure - high assistance. From your description of the way you ride, the Wisper Torque system will make the throttle redundant. You simply won't need it.

As Eddie says give them a call, they will be able to supply.

Kind regards, David

 

[DorsetDave]

Thanks for the replies so far. I will look at the Wisper bike. Certainly if the motor comes in as soon as you apply pressure [presume holding the brake lever and putting pressure on the pedal while you wait for green] this would seem to be a great help. With my bike at the moment it takes a few seconds before the motor kicks in to get me away from the lights quickly unless I use the throttle.

The whole area with twist and go seems a minefield at the moment . I was going by this Info sheet from the Department for Transport. Ref pages 2 and 3
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482015/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie,
Quite frankly the law is an ass...it is obvious that the Dft have been heavily influenced by the motorcycle lobby who see the freedom of a Pedelec to be a strong competitor to L1e-A mopeds. I have to say who would buy a moped requiring tax,insurance,helmet and still be restricted to 15 mph,the Pedelec looks a very attractive option,especially now that we have all managed to make these bikes more powerful and lighter.
The reason you are not getting much interest from e-bike shops is that the law says that you can have a twist and go 15 mph throttle but need type approval,however VOSA don't have a category to type approve a Pedelec,you can put it into the light moped category but then you need to modify your bicycle into a moped and then you won't be able to ride it down cycle tracks only use it on the highway,that doesn't sound attractive to anyone.
Some of us have 2015 stock which has grandfather rights,with 15 mph throttle,my Kudos Safari and Secret models will have stock for some time.
You could of course go illegal,I don't approve of this,but Trading Standards seem to ignore all the illegal S-class bikes that are openly flouting the law,the offence is basically the same if you fit a 15 mph throttle to any Pedelec.....using an unregistered ,untaxed,uninsured motor vehicle.....would anyone ever be convicted of using a 15 mph throttle on a Pedelec....don't forget if you are turning the pedals at the same time as operating the throttle,no matter how little effort you are inputting you are legal,I am sure there is a legal loophole available there.
Hope this explains the ambiguity of the current situation.....the law is an ass!
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Thanks for the replies so far. I will look at the Wisper bike. Certainly if the motor comes in as soon as you apply pressure [presume holding the brake lever and putting pressure on the pedal while you wait for green] this would seem to be a great help. With my bike at the moment it takes a few seconds before the motor kicks in to get me away from the lights quickly unless I use the throttle.

The whole area with twist and go seems a minefield at the moment . I was going by this Info sheet from the Department for Transport. Ref pages 2 and 3
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482015/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

That info sheet was updated in December 2015 by the Dft.

 

[flecc]

That info sheet was updated in December 2015 by the Dft.

The revision dated November 2015 is on this link.

I don't have a link to any later one.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The revision dated November 2015 is on this link.

I don't have a link to any later one.
.

I have the December 2015 at work,the only change seemed to make the throttle/type approval definite.
Dave

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Dorstet Dave,

If you would like to discuss the use of a throttle, please feel free to call me. 07733226906.

All the best, David

 

[Kudoscycles]

I wonder how many buyers will buy a legal Pedelec and then fit a throttle to it,ignoring the law. The illegality of S-class and dongle equipped e-bikes seems to be ignored by many,Trading Standards seem to have nil interest.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

I wonder how many buyers will buy a legal Pedelec and then fit a throttle to it,ignoring the law. The illegality of S-class and dongle equipped e-bikes seems to be ignored by many,Trading Standards seem to have nil interest.
KudosDave

As a proportion of UK members and visitors to this forum and Endless Sphere, quite high.

As a proportion of other pedelec buyers, very low if at all.

So overall not very many nationally.
.

 

[DorsetDave]

Just rung up my nearest Wisper dealer [Cyclexperience of Brockenhurst, Hants] who tell me the Wisper Torque bikes may not do what I want as explained above i.e. get the motor going immediately I release the brake and put pressure on the pedal] They explained that the only bikes that do that are the ones with a Bosch crank drive motor. However I am going over to see them next week [about 22 miles away] to test drive some bikes

 

[Cyclezee]

I can't speak for other bikes but in the case of Heinzmann which use a TDCM torque sensor power comes as soon as you press on the pedals.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Can you fit a twist and go to a torque sensor bike?

Dorset Dave,some info for you....the speed at which the power comes in on a speed sensor is determined by the number of magnets on the sender,it can be minimal rotation of the pedals to get power.
I trust you realise that with a torque sensor you have to put in effort to get power out,on a steep hill you need to pressure the pedals to get motor power,is that what you want?
Most of the European spec bikes that have throttles are usually a thumb throttle,the controller is of a type that usually cannot have a 15 mph twist and go throttle,you need to change the controller.
If twist and go is so important to you,you need to buy bikes that have been imported prior to December 2015 or go illegal and fit a twist and go throttle to a bike that was originally specified to take one.
KudosDave

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I am sorry but Cycle X are gravely mistaken.

They have only recently started to sell electric bicycles and are still a little confused about what the Wisper bikes can do. In fact they do this better than the Bosch system. We sell them both!

I will call them on Monday.

All the best David.

 

[Cyclezee]

Can you fit a twist and go to a torque sensor bike?KudosDave

Yes Dave, provided you use the right controller you can have a torque sensor and throttle.

 

[Fordulike]

I wonder how many buyers will buy a legal Pedelec and then fit a throttle to it,ignoring the law. The illegality of S-class and dongle equipped e-bikes seems to be ignored by many,Trading Standards seem to have nil interest.
KudosDave

I'm afraid trading standards are still far too busy investigating the fake Rolex I bought last month. I paid fifty quid for that bugger, thinking it was the real deal

 

[DorsetDave]

Thanks to all for making comments on this thread. I have now been to see Ben at Cyclexperience in Brockenhurst in the New Forest. Had a test ride on a Wisper 705 torque and decided to buy it. It suits my needs and I tested the torque feature which gives me instant power as soon as I put pressure on the pedal. Have ridden it for a while now and although there are intrinsic differences to my old bike with old technology am getting on with it well. Incidentally I now see the DfT have allowed Twist and Go without Type Approval in certain circumstances. Special Thanks to David at Amps for terrific customer service.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks for your kind words Dave, and thanks for investing in a Wisper. I am delighted you are enjoying it. Please let me know how you get on.

All the best, David