Ebike still legal if I run 36V motor at 48V and limit speed to 15mph?

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,906
8,521
61
West Sx RH
Sorry chaps, I'm back again!

Forgive my ignorance of the whole industry, but does that mean that a manufacturer could take a 1kw motor, find some sort of testing house to "rate" it at 250w then sell it to me as legal?
Yes.
Bafang do it with the BBS01 (or did do it), the std 250w was 15a then came along the BBS01 ETM it is 250w rated with 25a controller.
 
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Gooseman

Pedelecer
May 12, 2020
74
6
angus
it's very easy to 'lock' the speed limit to the wheels RPM but customers can force manufacturers to let them have access to the settings unless the norms specify the protected settings.
Do you mean by activating the password for the screen? I thought this would stop the screen being used until a password was entered or is there another password level that stops you going into the settings? I have the LCD3 and enter the settings menu quite often when zeroing the trip meter so would be handy if that would stop this from happening.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,301
16,837
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
you can have the LCD programmed to lock specific settings: wheel diameter, speed limit and the controller, RPM.
No need for password because the manufacturer can load new code via the LCD connector. Customers don't have access to the firmware loader.
The decision to lock is mainly commercial.
 

Edward Elizabeth

Pedelecer
Aug 10, 2020
136
191
Buckinghamshire
A good friend of mine is head of roads policing for our county. He tells me that any switch, setting, menu, dongle, etc, that allows the rider to readily deviate from legal specs instantly makes in unlawful. If you as a rider can "readily " (ie, without tools and dismantling the thing wholesale) alter the settings then it ain't compliant, it's that simple. Plenty of riders have discovered that in Court.

Theoretically, reprogramming with a laptop and then reflashing the legal settings back before going back on the road would be ok, although that has yet to be tested in Court, I'm told.

He tells me they don't finger loads of dodgy ebikes, but they do catch people at it and do prosecute. Aside from any licencing offences, no insurance is also regarded as a dishonesty offence so shows up on DBS checks - you can then kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, schools, with children, or anything sensitive that requires a DBS check in the first place.

Probably the safest bet is to keep the bike legal for road use, and build a second for off road japes. I keep my Felt road legal, but I have 11 acres of land that I use my modified Trek for, and that bike never ventures out in public. Kits dont cost much so building a second bike is inexpensive, and that being the case there is no justification for not going down that route.

The odds off getting caught are small, but that is no consolation whatsoever when you do get caught.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
If you as a rider can "readily " (ie, without tools and dismantling the thing wholesale) alter the settings then it ain't compliant, it's that simple.

they do catch people at it and do prosecute.
Your first sentence is not true. A very high proportion of our pedelecs, imported as legal with CE markings and settings compliant with the law, have alterable LCD settings and can be made non compliant with the law. That does not make them illegal. Indeed, some have been approved in the DfT's official testing centres.

As the DfT who make the law indicate, the key word is "use". If the facility isn't used, no law is broken. Your second sentence illustrates that with its use of "catch people at it". i.e. using the facility.

Below is the DfT statement on this subject at a London meeting with the police and other interested bodies on 13th April 2013. Not the use of the word "use" that I've highlighted in blue:

"The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them. The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines."

Usage is illegal, having the facility is not, neither here nor throughout the EU, EFTA countries and Turkey.
,
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,828
6,478
plod wont chase me had a plod van behind me yesterday and was going 30mph on the road and not interested never have been round here and fkn scooter gangs everywhere now as well they dont do anything about it and been told buy cid in my house looking at my bike they will not enforce the law regarding speed limits and will only get involved if someone is killed.


and there you go pmsl :p
 

Wicky

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2014
2,823
4,011
Colchester, Essex
www.jhepburn.co.uk
Plenty of riders have discovered that in Court.
Links to these court cases?

Aside from any licencing offences, no insurance is also regarded as a dishonesty offence so shows up on DBS checks - you can then kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, schools, with children, or anything sensitive that requires a DBS check in the first place.
Sure of that? I know folk prosecuted for cultivation of cannabis, no insurance going on to be nurses (senior site nurse practitioner) , civil servants & councillors, care workers and school governors etc. Usually employers have discretion and depending on their attitude doesn't mean it's the absolute you make it out to be.
 

WheezyRider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 20, 2020
1,690
938
A good friend of mine is head of roads policing for our county. He tells me that any switch, setting, menu, dongle, etc, that allows the rider to readily deviate from legal specs instantly makes in unlawful. If you as a rider can "readily " (ie, without tools and dismantling the thing wholesale) alter the settings then it ain't compliant, it's that simple. Plenty of riders have discovered that in Court.

Theoretically, reprogramming with a laptop and then reflashing the legal settings back before going back on the road would be ok, although that has yet to be tested in Court, I'm told.

He tells me they don't finger loads of dodgy ebikes, but they do catch people at it and do prosecute. Aside from any licencing offences, no insurance is also regarded as a dishonesty offence so shows up on DBS checks - you can then kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, schools, with children, or anything sensitive that requires a DBS check in the first place.

Probably the safest bet is to keep the bike legal for road use, and build a second for off road japes. I keep my Felt road legal, but I have 11 acres of land that I use my modified Trek for, and that bike never ventures out in public. Kits dont cost much so building a second bike is inexpensive, and that being the case there is no justification for not going down that route.

The odds off getting caught are small, but that is no consolation whatsoever when you do get caught.

Still waiting for a list of court cases about this Ed. A lot of people here would be very interested to know about them.

Could it be a case of "He would say that, wouldn't he"? Or have these people just been given a caution, and it hasn't gone to court?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Could it be a case of "He would say that, wouldn't he"? Or have these people just been given a caution, and it hasn't gone to court?
Nor even that. This police officer is almost certainly speaking of illegal two wheelers such as mini-motos and the like that the police take off the road, nothing whatsoever to do with pedelecs.

I'm confident there has never been a single British prosecution of someone for altering a legal pedelec to an illegal specification.

There's been two attempts by the police to prosecute for an illegal specification in the first instance from new, but both were mistaken due to the police not being aware of the effect of the 1972 European Communities Act and cases dropped. And on Guernsey where they administer their own law a cycle dealer was fined for hiring out e-bikes with higher power than their local law allowed. Even that wasn't due to initial police action, he was reported to the police by a rival cycle dealer.
.
 
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joelectric

Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2019
144
93
Motherwell
A good friend of mine is head of roads policing for our county. He tells me that any switch, setting, menu, dongle, etc, that allows the rider to readily deviate from legal specs instantly makes in unlawful. If you as a rider can "readily " (ie, without tools and dismantling the thing wholesale) alter the settings then it ain't compliant, it's that simple. Plenty of riders have discovered that in Court.

Theoretically, reprogramming with a laptop and then reflashing the legal settings back before going back on the road would be ok, although that has yet to be tested in Court, I'm told.

He tells me they don't finger loads of dodgy ebikes, but they do catch people at it and do prosecute. Aside from any licencing offences, no insurance is also regarded as a dishonesty offence so shows up on DBS checks - you can then kiss goodbye to ever working in public services, schools, with children, or anything sensitive that requires a DBS check in the first place.

Probably the safest bet is to keep the bike legal for road use, and build a second for off road japes. I keep my Felt road legal, but I have 11 acres of land that I use my modified Trek for, and that bike never ventures out in public. Kits dont cost much so building a second bike is inexpensive, and that being the case there is no justification for not going down that route.

The odds off getting caught are small, but that is no consolation whatsoever when you do get caught.
"alter the settings then it ain't compliant, it's that simple. Plenty of riders have discovered that in Court."

Made up scaremongering nonsense, either from you or your 'friend'