Ebike News

[lenny]

Arrest after e-bike hits two people in city centre

"Electric bikes are legal to use across the country but, under current legislation, must not exceed an output of 250 watts or travel faster than 15.5mph (24.9km/h)."

Arrest after e-bike hits two people in Nottingham city centre

An 18-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of riding an e-bike without due care and attention.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[portals]

I won't even read any article in the sun and Adrian Chiles is a horrible cnt, everyone knows that, he's no fckn journalist and has been writing shite like that for yrs now for Guardian...

 

[lenny]

Panorama - E-Bikes: The Battle for Our Streets

Adrian Chiles investigates the extraordinary rise of electric bikes on our streets and what that means for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lenny]

"Figures show 937 illegal e-bikes were seized in the year up to 11 August 2024 - up from 511 in the previous 12 months, representing an 83% increase."

Freedom of Information in the news – week ending 27/9/2024 – #FOIFriday – Words + Numbers

 

[nigelbb]

I won't even read any article in the sun and Adrian Chiles is a horrible cnt, everyone knows that, he's no fckn journalist and has been writing shite like that for yrs now for Guardian...

He is married to the editor Katherine Viner.

 

[saneagle]

Batteries in laptops, buses, cars and e-bikes have all caught fire in explosive ways because of dendritic crystals forming in cell electrolytes, causing shorts. It's also what is holding up the introduction of solid state lithium batteries.

Just Google the subject for any number of scholarly articles on the issue. Only recently it's been possible for the first time to actually film the crystal growth using an electron microscope with cryogenic methods.
.

You're still not getting it. We've all been using laptops, phones etc. for years. I've never had one catch fire, nor have you, nor has anybody else that I know. It's not some inherent characteristic of the battery that will cause it to burn at some point in time.

There was a pattern to those that caught fire - same model, same brand, same batch. My powers of deduction say that indicates a manufacturing or design fault.

There are other occurrences, but they're muddied by all the other potential causes, like damage, damaged connector, water, wrong charger, etc.

I call BS on dendrites causing any of our lithium batteries to catch fire. If it were true, lithium batteries would be banned.

 

[saneagle]

A big e-bike with an illegal throttle can be deadly – Adrian Chiles on the dark side of the city runabout
Incredibly, the Government will potentially help you buy an illegal e-bike via a cycle to work scheme

"But the bigger bikes invariably come with throttles, which is illegal.
The retailers often claim they’re in the clear if the throttle is deactivated when you buy it.
However, if it’s a simple matter to get the throttle working once you’ve made the purchase — as it usually is — that, too, is illegal."

I spent the day on an ebike - Govt must step in, says Adrian Chiles

THERE can’t be many of us who haven’t had a close shave with an e-bike, be it on a road, pavement or footpath. They’re big, they’re heavy and they come at you silently, often at alarming speed. Inv…

www.thesun.co.uk

“Chaos could be coming our way” – Adrian Chiles asks whether e-bikes are “a new menace in need of tighter regulation” on BBC Panorama

Let he who has never favoured the more dramatic headline option cast the first stone. History suggested that the latest Panorama episode, E-Bikes: The Battle For Our Streets, wouldn’t be quite as sensationalist as its title suggested. Did that prove to be the case? The premise of the episode...

ebiketips.road.cc

Adrian Chiles is guilty of hate speech against normal legal ebikes. He should be prosecuted for it. Send your complaint to the BBC and the police.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Adrian Chiles is guilty of hate speech against normal legal ebikes. He should be prosecuted for it. Send your complaint to the BBC and the police.

pedelecophobia

 

[MikelBikel]

"Figures show 937 illegal e-bikes were seized in the year up to 11 August 2024 - up from 511 in the previous 12 months, representing an 83% increase."

Freedom of Information in the news – week ending 27/9/2024 – #FOIFriday – Words + Numbers

Funny how the figure "83%" keeps popping up?
Bit like how during the lockdowns it was always "11 protesters arrested", mmm
"83% of ... krime was by..."

83% of Irish adults miss out on new experiences & opportunities by sticking to the same old habits

New research into the habits of Irish adults has revealed that 83% of us fear on missing out on new experiences and opportunities by sticking to the same habits*. Of that 83%, 82% admit they are creatures of habit.

avondhupress.ie

Health and Smoking - CSO - Central Statistics Office

www.cso.ie

"Health good or v.good down to 83%"

Census 2022: 83% increase in number of over 65s living in rental accommodation

Age at which more than half of householders owned their home has increased from 26 to 36 years since 1991 Census

www.irishtimes.com

"83% more"

Health Determinants Irish Health Survey 2019 - Main Results - Central Statistics Office

www.cso.ie

"83% got a flu shot"

I'm sure it's completely Coin-cidental ;-)

 

[Az.]

Funny how the figure "83%" keeps popping up?
(...)

I'm sure it's completely Coin-cidental ;-)

13% is unlucky, 66% is to evil, 69% is to sexy... 83% was first politically correct number and that is why it is so widely used.

 

[Ghost1951]

You're still not getting it. We've all been using laptops, phones etc. for years. I've never had one catch fire, nor have you, nor has anybody else that I know. It's not some inherent characteristic of the battery that will cause it to burn at some point in time.

There was a pattern to those that caught fire - same model, same brand, same batch. My powers of deduction say that indicates a manufacturing or design fault.

There are other occurrences, but they're muddied by all the other potential causes, like damage, damaged connector, water, wrong charger, etc.

I call BS on dendrites causing any of our lithium batteries to catch fire. If it were true, lithium batteries would be banned.

Maybe take a look at the CVs of the chaps who wrote this article (link at bottom) and consider their experience before calling 'bullshit' on the processes they write about in connection with their research into safer batteries for a major Chinese automotive research institute. China after all is where battery production, utilisation and development is taking place .

Lithium dendrite is a phenomenon in which lithium-ion cannot be inserted into the anode layered structure and is deposited on the anode surface. Fast charging of LiBs and charging of LiBs at high SOC or at low temperature may accelerate the growth of lithium dendrites. As lithium dendrites grow, the separator may be punctured, leading to an ISC, eventually thermal runaway and fire. In addition, the reaction of lithium dendrites with the electrolyte will thicken SEI, which prevents lithium from participating in the reaction, resulting in a permanent reduction in capacity. Lithium dendrites can be partially dissolved by reverse reactions [29]. The common methods to avoid dendrites are to reserve 10–20% capacity to prevent overcharging [30], maintain the appropriate charging temperatures and allow the battery to stand after charging [31].

Slight over-discharge can lead to accelerated aging and lithium dendrite growth, which may cause ISC and then evolve into thermal runaway. The severity of over-discharge is lower than that of overcharge. Maleki et al. [66] found that over-discharge may lead to capacity loss and/or reduced thermal stability. They demonstrated that dissolved copper (Cu) can migrate from the anode side to the cathode side through the spacer, leading to ISCs and further thermal runaway. Zhang et al. [67] found that the capacity degradation of the over-discharged batteries is mainly caused by the dissolution of Cu collectors and deposition of Cu on the anode surface. Erol et al. [68] demonstrated that the impedance increases greatly when the battery is over-discharged.

The growth of lithium dendrites was found in the disassembled battery after a long-term low temperature charging. The lithium deposition layer became thicker as a number of cycles increase. If the lithium dendrite continues to grow, it may penetrate the separator, causing the battery ISC and even triggering thermal runaway. Dai et al. [69] pointed out that lithium precipitation is the main cause of capacity degradation and internal impedance increase of a LiB when charging at low temperature. Charging at high current or at high cut-off voltage also induces lithium precipitation, accelerating capacity degradation.

The inconsistencies between the cells in a battery pack can also induce failure. There are always slight differences between battery cells due to manufacturing process, and these cells usually need to be connected in parallel to obtain sufficient capacity and then in series to obtain suitable voltage. Parallel-connected cells are usually treated as one cell and only one voltage is measured. Due to the differences in internal resistance of each cell, there will be different currents flowing through the cells [33]. This can cause different temperatures of each cell, which in turn affects the internal resistance and current of each cell [34]. Eventually, it may gradually amplify small differences and significantly increase cell inconsistency. Series-connected cells usually measure only total current in the series branch. Due to the cell differences in capacity, internal resistance and SOC, each cell may have different voltage and different available charge and discharge capacity. As the current flowing through the cells is the same in this series branch, the cells cannot be fully utilized. Inconsistence will also cause battery aging, a reduction in capacity and an increase in internal resistance [35]. Aging can lead to an increase in SOC estimation error which affects BMS decisions [36]. This in turn will aggravate cell inconsistencies in a battery pack, causing overcharge [37]. Selecting different charge and discharge strategies at various temperatures for these inconsistent cells can significantly slow down battery aging [38].

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666792423000252#keys0001

 

[Ghost1951]

You're still not getting it. We've all been using laptops, phones etc. for years. I've never had one catch fire, nor have you, nor has anybody else that I know. It's not some inherent characteristic of the battery that will cause it to burn at some point in time.

There was a pattern to those that caught fire - same model, same brand, same batch. My powers of deduction say that indicates a manufacturing or design fault.

There are other occurrences, but they're muddied by all the other potential causes, like damage, damaged connector, water, wrong charger, etc.

I call BS on dendrites causing any of our lithium batteries to catch fire. If it were true, lithium batteries would be banned.

I asked google AI about this point you deny.

My question -
"Do dendrites cause spontaneous battery fires?"

"
Yes, dendrites can cause spontaneous battery fires:

• What are dendrites?
  Dendrites are tiny, needle-like structures that form on the negative electrode of lithium-ion batteries during charging.
  
  
• How do dendrites cause fires?
  Dendrites can pierce the separator between the anode and cathode, causing an internal short circuit. This allows large currents to flow internally, which can overheat the battery and lead to a fire or explosion.
  
  
• What causes dendrites to form?
  Dendrites can form due to abnormal charging conditions, such as overcharging or charging at a low temperature. They can also form when lithium ions accumulate on the anode surface and aren't absorbed in time.
  
  
• Why are dendrites a problem?
  Dendrites can also cause other problems, such as accelerated self-discharge, which can impair the battery's performance.
  
  
• How can dendrites be prevented?
  Researchers are working to develop ways to minimize or prevent dendrites from forming. "

 

[saneagle]

Maybe take a look at the CVs of the chaps who wrote this article (link at bottom) and consider their experience before calling 'bullshit' on the processes they write about in connection with their research into safer batteries for a major Chinese automotive research institute. China after all is where battery production, utilisation and development is taking place .

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666792423000252#keys0001

It's BS. Did your bike catch fire because of them? Name somebody who's did? People write this shite to cover up real problems.

Read what the AI said again. It doesn't say dendrites cause ebike fires. There's a key word. I'm sure you can understand English. A meteorite can fall on your head and kill you next time you step out of your house. You can be blown up by a nuclear bomb next week. These events are both far more dangerous than an ebike fire. Why is nobody talking or worrying about them?

As I said above, if it was actually happing, all lithium batteries would be banned.

 

[Ghost1951]

My position on avoiding my own batteries catching fore is as follows:

• Charge at a safe rate (be conservative about charging rate)
• Never charge a battery that is near or below freezing
• Never charge a battery which is hot
• Don't draw very heavy currents from your battery beyond its rating
• Never over-charge a battery
• Never run a battery that has been physically damaged or shows signs of structural damage or leaking.

Be suspicious of a battery which is regularly going unbalanced. It means that a cell or cells in one or more parallel groups are weaker and may be in danger of being over-charged.

This is all just common sense, but it is backed by expert research from people whose qualifications and work history backs up what they say.

 

[Ghost1951]

It's BS. Did your bike catch fire because of them? Name somebody who's did? People write this shite to cover up real problems.

Read what the AI said again. It doesn't say dendrites cause ebike fires. There's a key word. I'm sure you can understand English. A meteorite can fall on your head and kill you next time you step out of your house. You can be blown up by a nuclear bomb next week. These events are both far more dangerous than an ebike fire. Why is nobody talking or worrying about them?

As I said above, if it was actually happing, all lithium batteries would be banned.

I guess from the rapidity of your response and its content that you didn't trouble to read the research paper I referenced which was written by a group of Chinese automotive experts involved in safer battery development. Given that you haven't read it, I guess you also don't know about their research paper history either.

So you say dendrites don't cause fires. Experts say they do. Who should I believe.

I am sorry Dave to offend you. I don't want to offend you. I do like offending some people. You are not one of them, but I think you are wrong, and i think you are over relying on the experience you have in stating that dendrites are not a problem. People - many people involved at the cutting edge of battery development working in research centres take a view different to yours.

 

[flecc]

You're still not getting it. We've all been using laptops, phones etc. for years. I've never had one catch fire, nor have you, nor has anybody else that I know. It's not some inherent characteristic of the battery that will cause it to burn at some point in time.

I call BS on dendrites causing any of our lithium batteries to catch fire. If it were true, lithium batteries would be banned.

You are right that it is a manufacturing fault causing the fires, the faults being in the cell electrolyte, but it is you who is not getting it. It has long been established beyond question that slight imperfections in cell manufacture lead to the formation of metalic lithium crystals with sharp pointed growths that pierce insulation causing shorts leading to swelling and ultimately fires. And it was the urgency of very many fires in laptop batteries that led to that knowledge.

So much for nobody experiencing those fires, we've even watched videos of then exploding out while idle and out of use and not charging, some in transit merely being carried or laid down. A few of our members have experienced the swelling up short of burning, as I have with a camera battery.

That is why lithium batteries ARE so widely banned from flying, from many courier or postal services, or storage indoors.

Quotes:

"On February 12, 2013, the Wall Street Journal reported that Aviation safety investigators are examining whether the formation of microscopic structures known as dendrites inside the Boeing Co. 787's lithium-ion batteries played a role in twin incidents that prompted the fleet to be grounded nearly a month ago."

"On November 13, 2017, a lithium-ion battery overheated on a United Airlines Boeing 787 during approach to Charles de Gaulle Airport. A spokesman for Boeing said, "the plane experienced a fault with a single cell".

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) released a report on December 1, 2014, and assigned blame to several groups:[3]

• GS Yuasa of Japan, for battery manufacturing methods that could introduce defects not caught by inspection
• Boeing's engineers, who failed to consider and test for worst-case battery failures
• The Federal Aviation Administration, that failed to recognize the potential hazard and did not require proper tests as part of its certification process

"The FAA also announced plans to conduct an extensive review of the 787's critical systems. The review's focus was on the safety of the lithium-ion batteries[1] that use lithium cobalt oxide(LiCoO2) as the positive electrode. These electrodes are known for their thermal runaway hazard and provide oxygen for a fire."

"The Japan Transport Safety Board (JTSB) has said on January 23 that the battery in ANA jets in Japan reached a maximum voltage of 31 V (i.e. they were operating within the 32 V limit as the Boston JAL 787 had been), but had a sudden unexplained voltage drop[38] to near zero.[39] All cells had signs of thermal damage before the thermal runaway."
.

 

[Ghost1951]

And the AI did say that battery fires can be caused by dendrites.

Read it again. It says so in the second bullet point.

They only need to grow large enough to pierce the insulating permeable membrane between anode and cathode. This is a very thin, permeable, plastic sheet which lies between the anode and cathode, which as I am sure you know has a very very small spacing and is wound around and around in a sort of very thin, tight Swiss roll inside an 18650. The separator is meant to have tiny holes in it. That's fine because metal ions pass through. This is VERY different to a metallic copper thread growing through, or a metallic lithium one. They will conduct. When metallic dendrites grow through the separator they make a short circuit. Depending on the size and carrying capacity of the short, the cell will heat up and MAY run away. It might or it might not depending entirely on the dendrite shunt's current carrying capacity and heat generation potential. It might just drain the cell and cell group slowly if it is small enough.(*1 see note below)

This mode of failure may not be common - nothing like as common as really stupid abuse. Not being very common, does not mean it isn't real. You may recall that car fire video we talked about about three weeks ago. A car not having been used for several hours and not on charge just went up in flames. This internal shunt problem is a likely cause, I would say. You suggested that the battery most likely had been punctured by metallic road debris - an exhaust pipe run over by the car. I think that kind of injury would have shown itself pretty quickly, like when nutters on you tube hammer nails through lithium cells. There is no delay at all - they just erupt.


*1 Edit.

I have a10s 6p battery which is heading towards four years old and has powered my e-bike about 2800 miles. It has had a fault for about two years which shows as the potential to quite quickly go out of balance. The fault is on one group of parallel cells. A good suggestion frm helpful people here was that the BMS was connected to one group of cells and over time was draining that group down. Sadly - this does not fit with the quite rapid rate the cell group loses vltage. I can artificially balance the pack by charging the weak group myself so it is at 4.19v like all the others and within a twenty mile ride it will be a bit lower than the others. One of the cells in that bad group is draining the group. I believe it could be a cell with a small shunt. The voltage loss will amount to about 0.1 volts in a twenty mile ride.

There are two possibilities to account for this. Either one group has a very small shunt in it and is leaking away power across the separator, or the group contains a weak cell of lower capacity which lowers the voltage of that group as it exhausts itself before all the other cells.

I am going to take regular measurements of the voltage of that cell group to see if it is losing voltage all the time. If it does, then I will conclude that we have a leakage path in one of the cells of that group. That would mean scrapping the whole battery really, which would be a shame as I can get 30 to 40 miles out of it depending on terrain and muscle input.

 

[lenny]

Teenage e-bike rider dies in collision with ambulance during police pursuit

Saul Cookson, 15, died in hospital after he was in a crash with an ambulance on a residential road after police started to follow him

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[lenny]

E-bike hits pedestrian in Ryde High Street hit and run

CCTV footage shows the woman being knocked to the floor by two men riding an e-bike.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

I guess from the rapidity of your response and its content that you didn't trouble to read the research paper I referenced which was written by a group of Chinese automotive experts involved in safer battery development. Given that you haven't read it, I guess you also don't know about their research paper history either.

So you say dendrites don't cause fires. Experts say they do. Who should I believe.

I am sorry Dave to offend you. I don't want to offend you. I do like offending some people. You are not one of them, but I think you are wrong, and i think you are over relying on the experience you have in stating that dendrites are not a problem. People - many people involved at the cutting edge of battery development working in research centres take a view different to yours.

54 security experts, all of whom were very experienced and qualified, wrote a letter to say that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. I guess you believed them. Do you still believe them?