ebike motor kit for a wooden bike

[Evie]

Hello there,

I am new to this community, but am very glad I found it! I’ve already found lots of useful information.

I was wondering if you guys might be able to offer some advice.

I am currently designing a wooden bike, the design is based on a scrambler motorcycle and it will not have any pedals. To get an idea of what I mean, see picture below. My bike will be very similar.


I was originally going to buy a Golden Motor Magic Pie Vector 1000w front hub motor, with a 45v 17ah battery, but after seeing that postage would be 500 I decided not to go with this plan.

As there will be no pedals, the motor is going to have to do a lot of work. My original aim (with the magic pie) was to have a range of about 40 miles, but I now feel that this was too optimistic and am now aiming to go around 10/15 miles. (though around 20/25 would be good)

I had originally also planned to go with a gearless motor as I read that these are better for heavier bikes and supposedly last longer, though now I am considering a geared motor having read a little more.

I was thinking that I would need a motor of around 1000w as the bike will be quite heavy (about 18kg), but am thinking that I should probably stick with the road legal 250w.

My aim is to spend around 500 (though I know this is quite meagre in the ebike motor market). My bike will use forks from another bike so i plan to use a front motor as it will be more secure than in the back where the dropouts will be supported by a wooden frame.

I was wondering what suggestions people have about the best geared/gearless motors for my situation in the UK?

I have been looking at Woosh and Yose motors and am thinking these two options might be best:

The XF07 FRONT HUB KIT kit from Woosh with the 13ah battery for £469 (with the possible upgrade of the 17ah battery)

Or

The 36V 250W 26"/ 28" Front Motor Kit with the 36V15Ah Down Tube Battery from Yose £413.

Would you guys be able to give me your opinion on these motors/batteries?

Main main concern being - Do you think that the above motor and battery would be able to provide enough power for a mostly flat/with some hills 10/15 mile ride with a 18kg bike?.

Thank you so much in advance for you kind answers to my very long post!

if you guys dont think that a front motor is the right choice and a rear one might be more suitable, i am willing to take any advice

 

[PP100]

As there will be no pedals, the motor is going to have to do a lot of work

As you said you want to keep it "Road legal at 250w" , I believe no pedal assist at all is going to make it illegal for an E Bike , at any other than walking speed. Throttles at higher speeds require at least some token pedalling to keep legal.
Which is going to make it more like a moped, thus requiring tax/insurance etc.

The more experienced experts will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Evie]

As you said you want to keep it "Road legal at 250w" , I believe no pedal assist at all is going to make it illegal for an E Bike , at any other than walking speed. Throttles at higher speeds require at least some token pedalling to keep legal.
Which is going to make it more like a moped, thus requiring tax/insurance etc.

The more experienced experts will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong.

Ah yes. you are correct there. maybe it is time for a rethink. Any thoughts on the motors however? I'll probably still go for one of these even if i have the pedal function.

 

[PP100]

Ah yes. you are correct there. maybe it is time for a rethink. Any thoughts on the motors however? I'll probably still go for one of these even if i have the pedal function.

Yose are a fairly reputable supplier , there is a long thread on them already here, but they are China based so has it's drawbacks if you need tech help (can't comment on specifics as I'm not a kit builder) - On a normal bike, power wise on the flat, and occasional hills, both kits should be adequate - Whoosh have a good reputation and are on this forum and may give you more hands on advice on suitability.
As others will do shortly I would expect.

 

[Evie]

Yose are a fairly reputable supplier , there is a long thread on them already here, but they are China based so has it's drawbacks if you need tech help (can't comment on specifics as I'm not a kit builder) - On a normal bike, power wise on the flat, and occasional hills, both kits should be adequate - Whoosh have a good reputation and are on this forum and may give you more hands on advice on suitability.
As others will do shortly I would expect.

Thanks very much for your help. I think I'm definitely leaning towards going with Whoosh. Possibly now the BPM Bafang front motor.

 

[vfr400]

Thanks very much for your help. I think I'm definitely leaning towards going with Whoosh. Possibly now the BPM Bafang front motor.

That was a lucky escape from the 1000w front motor. It would have been terrible. Anything over 250w has to be a rear motor for safety and grip. there are lots of suitable geared rear hub-motors. Bafang BPM for sheer torque, or a Q128H isn't bad. whatever one you get, be aware that the speed is fixed by the motor windings and battery voltage, so make sure you know what that is before ordering.

You must have pedals for it to be legal. Lots of people have no hassle with their illegal bikes, but if you have no pedals, they won't take any prisoners.

 

[PP100]

I was thinking that I would need a motor of around 1000w as the bike will be quite heavy (about 18kg), but am thinking that I should probably stick with the road legal 250w.

18kg is not heavy for an e bike , in fact I think most ebikes, even the mid to top range ones are at least 20 kg plus - but part of that would be the battery and other components - but the point is the motor means you don't notice the weight - unless you need to actually carry it - and 250w motors power E bikes that are easily in the mid 20s kg weight range. Plus rider weight plus pannier luggage.

 

[Evie]

That was a lucky escape from the 1000w front motor. It would have been terrible. Anything over 250w has to be a rear motor for safety and grip. there are lots of suitable geared rear hub-motors. Bafang BPM for sheer torque, or a Q128H isn't bad. whatever one you get, be aware that the speed is fixed by the motor windings and battery voltage, so make sure you know what that is before ordering.

You must have pedals for it to be legal. Lots of people have no hassle with their illegal bikes, but if you have no pedals, they won't take any prisoners.

noted. thanks very much for your feedback. im now working away on figuring out how to add pedals onto the bike. I think i'm going to stick with the front motor choice, so will keep the 250w max in mind. if im not mistaken, i think the bafang bpm is used on woosh's big bear bike which is promising. i might send @Woosh an email to ask their opinion on suitability for my bike.

cheers

 

[Swizz]

That is a thing of beauty!

If you end up having token pedals and you are looking at keeping it legal, have you not considered a Bafang mid drive and a hub gear at the wheel? Am thinking of gearing helping you up hills & also maybe improving the range

And did I mention it's a thing of beauty?

 

[vfr400]

noted. thanks very much for your feedback. im now working away on figuring out how to add pedals onto the bike. I think i'm going to stick with the front motor choice, so will keep the 250w max in mind. if im not mistaken, i think the bafang bpm is used on woosh's big bear bike which is promising. i might send @Woosh an email to ask their opinion on suitability for my bike.

cheers

The BPM is a high torque motor with relatively high mass. It wouldn't be the best choice for you project. If you do go ahead with it, you need strong steel forks. A better choice for a front motor would be something like the small Q100H (AKM100).

Why are you averse to a rear motor, for which there are virtually no limits?

 

[Evie]

The BPM is a high torque motor with relatively high mass. It wouldn't be the best choice for you project. If you do go ahead with it, you need strong steel forks. A better choice for a front motor would be something like the small Q100H (AKM100).

Why are you averse to a rear motor, for which there are virtually no limits?

i am now thinking that maybe a rear motor is the better way to go after reading this thread/. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/front-or-rear-hub-motor.31233/page-2

one of the major reasons i wasnt so keen on the idea is that i was hoping to use a single speed wheel on the back as this would allow me to keep the bike thinner... but am thinking now that i might be better to just modify the design and widen the rear chain stays..

any suggestions for what might be the best rear motor?

 

[Evie]

That is a thing of beauty!

If you end up having token pedals and you are looking at keeping it legal, have you not considered a Bafang mid drive and a hub gear at the wheel? Am thinking of gearing helping you up hills & also maybe improving the range

And did I mention it's a thing of beauty?

oooh this is quite a cool idea! ill have a look into mid drives. aha thanks, the pic is of another bike, but im designing mine to look similar

 

[Swizz]

oooh this is quite a cool idea! ill have a look into mid drives. aha thanks, the pic is of another bike, but im designing mine to look similar

Will look forward to seeing it grow!

 

[sjpt]

Legal questions: Do the pedals on a pedalec have to drive anything? Is it sufficient to have pedals with rotation sensors but no other connection to bike propulsion? (extreme ghost pedalling) Is it legal to drive a hub drive bike with broken chain on motor power alone?

 

[vfr400]

Legal questions: Do the pedals on a pedalec have to drive anything? Is it sufficient to have pedals with rotation sensors but no other connection to bike propulsion? (extreme ghost pedalling) Is it legal to drive a hub drive bike with broken chain on motor power alone?

Yes, the pedals have to be able to propel the bike at a safe speed. Strictly speaking, it would be illegal to ride an electric bike without a chain, but if you had the broken chain in your pocket, i can't see anyone wanting to prosecute you. It would be similar to driving your car home after someone rear-ended you and took out one of your rear lights. Also, if you were pedalling right, how would anyone know?

Unless you make a list of performance and aesthetic requirements for your project, all you're going to get is people suggesting to use particular motors because that's what they've fitted and they are perfect, so only make perfect solutions, which is why there solution is the best for you.

 

[Ocsid]

It is the use of "wood" that intrigues me the more. Even in countries where just about everything that can be is made of wood or cane, it was not apparent there to me that wood was the material of choice for a bike. Is it the exceptional challenges it presents that floats your boat, not that it should be taken as a criticism just intriguing?

 

[Swizz]

It is the use of "wood" that intrigues me the more. Even in countries where just about everything that can be is made of wood or cane, it was not apparent there to me that wood was the material of choice for a bike. Is it the exceptional challenges it presents that floats your boat, not that it should be taken as a criticism just intriguing?

For a self build it's not that bad a material. Have seen some great recumbents with wooden frames.

 

[flecc]

Legal questions: Do the pedals on a pedalec have to drive anything? Is it sufficient to have pedals with rotation sensors but no other connection to bike propulsion? (extreme ghost pedalling) Is it legal to drive a hub drive bike with broken chain on motor power alone?

There was one legal exception, I forget the brand now but it was a small wheeled e-bike. The pedals operated a generator and that supplied a rear hub motor. No mechanical link but legal because the pedals still propelled the bike which is all the law requires.
.

 

[Evie]

I finished the bike! Check out the new forum thread here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/just-finished-building-my-wooden-ebike.41660/