What's that you say, a trade member is lying to us punters
what about his reputation, can we ever trust him to tell the truth in the future I probably over reacted, being gullible one of the short comings of being a genius
ebike law changes coming....
- Thread starter KTM Bike Industries UK
- Start date
what about his reputation, can we ever trust him to tell the truth in the future I probably over reacted, being gullible one of the short comings of being a genius
There probably is some truth in this. If we couple this latest revelation with the ludicrous ADT attempts it sounds like the European giants are starting to really ramp up the pressure to ensure their e-bikes are the only choice. Once they have achieved this watch their prices!
We all need to be very wary of such restrictive practice and attempted monopolisation of the market.
The chances of getting the law changed to allow ebikes to be assisted up to 35kph are zero as things stand. We all need to be aware that this could easily be the first step in e-bikes losing their special status in the transport mix. IF speeds are increased, I guarantee we will all be forced to register our bikes, cary registration plates and eventually pay to tax and insure them.
We all need to be very wary of such restrictive practice and attempted monopolisation of the market.
The chances of getting the law changed to allow ebikes to be assisted up to 35kph are zero as things stand. We all need to be aware that this could easily be the first step in e-bikes losing their special status in the transport mix. IF speeds are increased, I guarantee we will all be forced to register our bikes, cary registration plates and eventually pay to tax and insure them.
Yeh, and they're already stratospheric, for overcomplicated fault prone systems that can't be user repaired. (Ooo that's upset a few
) Just saying, going on what I read here. My £1000 (for bike purchase + hub kit) is still going strong after 5000 miles.The 10K/h progressive speed reduction sounds like somebodies fantasy come to during an after dinner drinking session.
As for the speed increase, 20mph would be nice, especially for those cycling in traffic. But, I can't see it happening, 'cos ebikes are so dangerous.
Under this new law, will kits be verboten? How about controllers bought direct from China? And whose going to police this? And how?
A logical outcome would be banning kits.Or at least demanding a written declaration by the assembler that the bike as assembled will meet the regulation. It would then also be logical to charge a compliance fee for the privilege, thus killing that market.
Yeah, 35kph does sound more sensible to me. I think that particularly for cycling on the road, this is safer for all concerned.
If I can keep up with traffic that is doing a little over 20mph as I approach a roundabout and have to change lanes, I can cycle far more predictably (at the moment, I try to let traffic past then wait for a gap to change lanes - but a gap doesn't always appear).
Another plus - the lycra brigade will be even more annoyed!
If I can keep up with traffic that is doing a little over 20mph as I approach a roundabout and have to change lanes, I can cycle far more predictably (at the moment, I try to let traffic past then wait for a gap to change lanes - but a gap doesn't always appear).
Another plus - the lycra brigade will be even more annoyed!
Maybe the title should be "change of the law in Germany"? I can't see any changes here in France where we don't even have an s-pedelec class or in Spain where cycle paths are limited to 5, 10 or 15 km/h depending on the part of town you are in.
In Germany they have wide uncluttered cycle paths where 35 km/h would be safe, some of ours aren't even safe to ride on whatever the speed...
In Germany they have wide uncluttered cycle paths where 35 km/h would be safe, some of ours aren't even safe to ride on whatever the speed...
Obviously the increase in speed limit of the assistance will require a law change.
But the changes to the motors to detect the manipulation is coming. I had this email to confirm it over the weekend.
"All ebikes sold in Europe from 2019 must have tuning detection built into the drive unit. This therefore applies to all the brands, full stop.
All motor manufacturers must have a built in detection system that restricts the operation of the motor if manipulation is detected.
Also, we as manufacturers must have the ability to prove that manipulation has been done."
You don't have to believe me, the advantage of this is that we can look back in 12 months and see if I was right.
PS, there are already a number of motors that are being used in the UK that already have this built in.
So you think its not true because the small UK brands don't know about it yet?
I agree, the bit about the knowing the speed of the bike is going to be tricky to prove its been tampered with.
However I'll say this again, as I now have it in writing.
"All ebikes sold in Europe from 2019 must have tuning detection built into the drive unit. This therefore applies to all the brands, full stop.
All motor manufacturers must have a built in detection system that restricts the operation of the motor if manipulation is detected.
Also, we as manufacturers must have the ability to prove that manipulation has been done."
Whisper, Woosh and Oxygen etc etc... are welcome to check this of course and if my sources are wrong I'll apologise and remove this thread.
I don't think it would require apology or removal - you have clearly stated that this is a rumour (albeit from a highly reliable source), so lets just see how things pan out.
D
Deleted member 4366
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That appears to be an internal email. It doesn't say that the law will be changed. Who's it from and who's it to? Could it be from some misinformed H&S officer? Without context, its meaningless. As I said, it's virtually impossible to implement. The only way any machine knows what's happening is by taking input from sensors, which can be misdirected and/or be replaced by false signals. That applies to humans too. Have you ever put on a VR headset?
"This applies to all brands, full stop" doesn't sound right to me. It's not the sort of thing I'd expect to see in any official memo or directive, neither does it look like anything that came from Germany. They don't say things like that.
Really David? Its not an official memo its an email, you might be shocked to read that we communicate with our suppliers around the world in quite an information manner.
The email also included.........
"Like I said, this is my understanding of what I was told today, and my boss has since clarified the above on email.
All the best mate,"
Do you want to try to dig any deeper to find a conspiracy theory
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Yes please. What else have you got?Do you want to try to dig any deeper to find a conspiracy theory
Not so sure, Kalkhoff seem to have achieved it. Keep your new Impulse 2 model on Eco and don't press too hard on the pedals and it will probably last for years.
Switch to a higher power and press hard on the pedals to go faster and it'll only last for tears.
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Now to mix two threads... Long before anything becomes official it exists as ideas, as rumours, as conversations around the coffee pots. Then it makes it way into memos then agenda items , then policy then legislation. I could see this as being about halfway along the path...
It would be in the interest of the big European players to help restrict the market place, and create a second market, so they will be pushing for it. It might be attractive to politicians who will be seen as being proactive. It will also feed into H and S mindset, which wants everything nice and tidy. Chargers linked to specific batteries, etc.
This is precisely the consequence of Brexit on UK manufacturers and importers. They are becoming outside the European loop where these things get discussed
It would be in the interest of the big European players to help restrict the market place, and create a second market, so they will be pushing for it. It might be attractive to politicians who will be seen as being proactive. It will also feed into H and S mindset, which wants everything nice and tidy. Chargers linked to specific batteries, etc.
This is precisely the consequence of Brexit on UK manufacturers and importers. They are becoming outside the European loop where these things get discussed
Sales of Bafang BBS kits will go through the roof,i have already chosen this option because it works out cheaper for more power and usability.
That's because the people who look into getting around firmware etcand creating speed dongles are looking at the most likely place they there will be a market. Clearly, it hasn't warranted them looking at Kalkhoff
They very well might in the short run. It would depend on whether the legislation is drafted to exclude home or custom built solutions. A single sentence in a directive could make them illegal. Something like... " All ebikes need certified conformance by the competent national authority.".
Now we still have petrol motor kits for bikes being sold and these are fitted to ordinary bikes . They don't have any chance of becoming legal, and people are occasionally prosecuted....
Fortunately the way EU and UK laws are constructed has meant it's more convenient for the legislators to ignore the kit possibility and leave a legal void within which we legally use them.
The essence of this is as follows:
All pedelecs are excluded from motor vehicle type approval.
Manufactured pedelecs are subject to forms of pedelec type approval not available to individuals.
The only system for individual vehicle approval, SVA, is for motor vehicles, which pedelecs are not.
Basically a self-created Catch 22 for the legislators!
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