eBike for 14yr Old Kid

[portals]

My son turned 14 last week, over the weekend we both cycled, got train then more cycling to visit his grand parents and I was explaining what an ebike is to them (both in 80s...).

Anyway got a call tonight from them and they asked if he's like an ebike for Christmas, initial thoughts were no chance, too dangerous, however after looking in to it I have somewhat changed my point of view.

I hadn't come across any ebikes for kids but there are plenty of the out there, even Argos is selling them for £800 mark and they look OK for that price I suppose with 250W 15.5mph limit and not great 36V battery.

Given he already rides around on his bike at 15mph and keeps up with me on my ebike (home brew 1500W rear hub/52V 17.5AH battery), I'm wondering if there would be any benefit to him, answer is probably yes, we can go on longer rides together and maybe visit grand parents without having to hop most of it on train. He's quite a sensible lad, been on bikes since he was 4 so it's really other drivers and theft I'm most worried about.

Does anyone have kids that have an ebike, would be interested to hear your experiences?

 

[soundwave]

if you gave me a ebike when i was 14 and said it cuts out at 15mph it would have been dumped in the shed never to be seen again.

some kids round here have skateboards scooters one wheels ect that can go 25-30mph so thats what they all want these days while on the bloody phone not looking where there going of course and no helmets either.

depends on the budget but id get him a bafang mid drive kit and set the power and speed levels to match the competition.

 

[portals]

if you gave me a ebike when i was 14 and said it cuts out at 15mph it would have been dumped in the shed never to be seen again.

some kids round here have skateboards scooters one wheels ect that can go 25-30mph so thats what they all want these days while on the bloody phone not looking where there going of course and no helmets either.

depends on the budget but id get him a bafang mid drive kit and set the power and speed levels to match the competition.

Yes, I hear what you're saying, 15.5mph is pretty rubbish however for longer trips I can see him taking an interest, at moment 1hr out on bikes with hills and he's pretty tired and he's a very fit lad, plays football 4 times a week for local club and school.

I still have nightmares about my own build, I used a vintage MTB frame and lets just say I even had issues stripping it before the shot blasting and respraying, I got there in end but did need some help from LBS to sort drive train spacing out....I'm not sure if I could face doing a mid-drive install right now however that will change and is probably the best option.

I've done little research on the lower power motors (250W or 500W with 36 or 48V battery). spent all my time looking at 1500W rears and 52V batteries.

What would I need to get a 250W or at push 500W (to match local scooter gangs), and reach say 25mph which I find plenty enough on my ebike? Can this be done with 250W / 36V battery or is 48V or larger wattage motor required? Is there a kit online you could point me too as google search results are needle in haystack... Probably I need a controller that can hande 48V to 250W mid or rear hub?

Thanks

 

[soundwave]

well on my bike with no hills i can blast around going well over 30mph with a 500w batt and a bosch cx motor and i get around 25 miles in range tho at times there is 400w coming from my legs but i use a dongle to remove the speed limit.

so if you you use lower power modes you wont go as fast but will get more miles rather than hammering it.

a 1000w bafang mid drive will pi$$ all over me speed wise but i have no option to up the amps in the controller.

a better match would be a 750w bafang mid drive and set the limits of the controller with the usb programme cable but you cant have range and speed.

a 1000w bafang turned up to the max with a throttle will nuke a 17ah batt in less than 20 miles as you will be pushing 40mph+ depending on gearing.

 

[portals]

well on my bike with no hills i can blast around going well over 30mph with a 500w batt and a bosch cx motor and i get around 25 miles in range tho at times there is 400w coming from my legs but i use a dongle to remove the speed limit.

so if you you use lower power modes you wont go as fast but will get more miles rather than hammering it.

a 1000w bafang mid drive will pi$$ all over me speed wise but i have no option to up the amps in the controller.

a better match would be a 750w bafang mid drive and set the limits of the controller with the usb programme cable but you cant have range and speed.

a 1000w bafang turned up to the max with a throttle will nuke a 17ah batt in less than 20 miles as you will be pushing 40mph+ depending on gearing.

OK, thanks for the info.

I want to keep this looking legal and don't want him to have the hassle of worrying about gearing so more I think about this I think a 250W rear hub on donor MTB with a controller that can handle 48V and the current draw may be the way to go?

I don't want to spend the earth on a battery either (my battery is Samsung cells 52V 17.5Ah but I paid £500 from a UK importer to be sure I didn't get a knock-off), we'll see...

So at moment my ideal kit would be 250W (max 500W if it's a must to get min 25mph), with suitable battery to get at least 25mph on flat and some have some range....so not much of an ask then ;-)

 

[soundwave]

well if it just on the flat then that will be ok but off road it will be a different story esp over jumps a hub motor will just snap all the spokes.

also a mid drive is better for climbing hills and you can add power in a lower mode to get more range from the batt.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

just set the controller to 20a as thats what my bosch motor has power wise and will climb hills like a goat.

full down hill black trails it will fall to bits tho.

 

[portals]

well if it just on the flat then that will be ok but off road it will be a different story esp over jumps a hub motor will just snap all the spokes.

also a mid drive is better for climbing hills and you can add power in a lower mode to get more range from the batt.

Pardon our interruption...

www.ebay.co.uk

just set the controller to 20a as thats what my bosch motor has power wise and will climb hills like a goat.

full down hill black trails it will fall to bits tho.

Thanks.

We don't do any off-roading, infact I avoid even bumping over kerbs on my ebike even at slow speeds when we're out as don't want to upset the heavy battery on the drinks holder or anything else tbh.

Will have to have a think about the way forward and do some proper research.

 

[soundwave]

granny might have a heart attack at the price tho and the batts are a rip off

 

[portals]

That's a nice looking Bafang kit link you sent, I'm not sure I have the skills or tools to fir it though.

 

[soundwave]

loads of vids on you tube how to fit them you just need the right frame for the size batt you want and it will fit the bottom bracket but these guys can sort you out and in the uk.

Home → Cogs Y Gogs - eBike Workshop Supplier & Installer

Electric Bike Kits Stockist & installer based in Caernarfon.

www.cogsygogs.co.uk

Batteries → Cogs Y Gogs - eBike Workshop Supplier & Installer

 

[PC2017]

Just as a PSA and more fact than personal opinion and I read he is only 14. I speak from experience when I say, even though I was fairly careful kid sometimes by association the 5.o would stop us for a "quick chat". If per se, he did have an illicit ebike and the cops were bored, if you are planning a driving license at 16, they could give him 6 points (no license would increase the fine I would imagine), revoke his license and fine him a great deal, although you could pony up the fine and pay for a new license I would think it is something he should be aware of, not to mention any future pitfalls or legislation changes that could effect his future plans.

 

[StuartsProjects]

mmm hanging out with Scooter gangs, doing 25mph, seems like a good way to attract attention.

 

[soundwave]

so is using a 5kw hub motor for just eat delivery's and there are hundreds of them round here and plod dont care the law is not enforced so is pointless.

and my m8 with his bafang hd has been riding it to work and back for nearly 2 years now and that thing can hit 40mph and has never been pulled over and neither have i and my bike is nearly 9 years old now

 

[StuartsProjects]

Quoting examples of those that dont get caught breaking the 'eBike' laws is not helpful.

 

[soundwave]

this is the law and he got away with it.

E-bike cyclist weeps in court after being cleared of killing pedestrian in London

Death was believed to be first in UK caused by collision with electrical bicycle

www.independent.co.uk

also a m8 of mine with a 1kw hub motor crashed in to a metal barrier snapped it in half as hit it going 30mph pissed out of his head ambulance scrapped his off off the road and police was called and ceased the bike and got it back a few months later but the frame was cracked.

also not 1 person has had the bike taken off of them or even been stopped that has been reported on this forum.

there is no point in a law if it is never enforced as plod would have to take all the ebikes of the just eat delivery drivers all the kids on scooters ect ect it is never going to happen like it or not.

 

[portals]

Some good points above,

Just as a PSA and more fact than personal opinion and I read he is only 14. I speak from experience when I say, even though I was fairly careful kid sometimes by association the 5.o would stop us for a "quick chat". If per se, he did have an illicit ebike and the cops were bored, if you are planning a driving license at 16, they could give him 6 points (no license would increase the fine I would imagine), revoke his license and fine him a great deal, although you could pony up the fine and pay for a new license I would think it is something he should be aware of, not to mention any future pitfalls or legislation changes that could effect his future plans.

I saw an article on a kid that gone done in UK and got 6 points on his future license, as you say that alone is a good enough reason to go with a legal 250W rear hub that will pass a cop once over and see what subtle trickery can be done to allow it to hit 25mph.

 

[soundwave]

problem is that is classed as a mode that can increase the speed so still not road legal but plod wont even know what they are looking at anyway.

any kit you buy that allows you to write to the controllers settings means under law it is not road legal.

Derestriction, ‘off-road’ switches or modes and dongles

The Department of Transport say that electric bikes fitted with off-road switches or modes, that enable a bike’s motor to continue assisting to speeds beyond 15.5mph, do not comply with UK EAPC law. The term ‘off-road’ suggests that these bikes can be ridden on parkland, forests or other places away from main roads, which isn’t accurate. E-bikes with increased motor power (continuous rated power above 250w) or increased speed (with motor assistance not cutting out at 15.5mph) cannot be used legally as bicycles anywhere on land accessible by the public; when riding on private land you would need permission from the landowner.

as long as you dont take the **** and use a stealth bomber or a surron that can hit 70mph you wont have a problem.

back when i was 14 a house cost 60k a tesla costs that now

 

[PC2017]

but plod wont even know what they are looking at anyway

I tend to agree, however the kid is 14 and if he's never had a run in with the law it can be rather upsetting having a bunch of bullies, unnecessarily armed to the teeth with nonlethal weapons pointing and shaking a finger at you, not to mention when you inevitably say "my dad bought me this" because you are feeling protected and righteously empowered by your parents, they will come down hard to make a example. Just saying.

I have also noticed recently there is a lot of popup command points for vehicle inspections, snaring anything that turns around to avoid them, from uninsured to drug driving. If he wonders into one, I rode past one last xmas and my arse was twinging luckily they were busy with a quad bike that was not road worthy.

 

[WheezyRider]

For kids I've made kits for I've made sure they were as compliant to the regs as possible.

I would also start with the speed restricted to lower than the legal limit until I was confident they could handle it comfortably in all conditions.

What do they need the e-boost for? Mainly start/stop stuff and going uphill. Top speed on the flat is less important as most fit riders will go over 15 mph anyway on the flat.

Weight is also another issue. A bike too heavy for the rider is dangerous. So keep the motor and battery small and have low top speed so range is still good. Depends on the build/size of the child.

 

[StuartsProjects]

here is no point in a law if it is never enforced

Well, I doubt there are many, even those in this forum, who would suggest there are no restrictions or laws for eBikes.

So because the laws (for eBikes) are (apparently) not enforced they should be removed from the statute books ?