Ebco m45 help please

[cyclebuddy]

Thing that confuses me is that the overheating thing should resolve itself when it cools down again according to a manual I found.

You would think so, wouldn't you? Do you have any clues as to how the fault arose? Maybe it was prolonged abuse that just fried the sensor and the motor got cooked too?

The motor is an F15 - still current in the TranzX 2021 catalogue. That same motor is also used on two current Raleigh folding e-bikes, models Stow-E-Way and Evo - both complete TranzX CANbus systems, so Raleigh dealers should also have current access to the LogiX diagnostics.

I would call/email Ebco, Raleigh and/or TranzX again, and ask where these LogiX equipped dealers are: They must have a database of current dealers registered to use it or are accessing it to reflash/update the e-bike firmware.

 

[cyclebuddy]

This is what I keep warning people about. Stick with standard Chinese electrics or Bosch or Shimano. Anything else might lead to a situation like this. Unfortunately there are hundreds of new ebike systems springing up and fading out all the time. Sooner or later whatever you have will need to be fixed.

I do agree, but TranzX's "modus operandi" is to give you the advantages of an (in theory) easily diagnosed CANbus system well below the cost of Bosch or Shimano. Yes, the OP is having trouble finding a dealer who has that system, but even the multitude of Bosch dealers who do have the Bosch diagnostics won't touch your bike unless you bought it from them - and then the costs are hideous.

The whole plug-in CANbus diagnostics thing will come of age when users have their own access to those diagnostics - like TranzX's new bluetooth and phone App system above. Users then know where to look, and for those who can/want to, plug in a replacement display, controller, motor, or battery themselves - or take it back to the shop knowing what the fault actually is. I know the Chinese based systems are easy for you to repair given your considerable experience, but we don't all have a vfr, Woosh, or Neal at our immediate disposal to diagnose and repair our ebikes... and people like you won't be around forever either! What do we electrically-ignorant folk do then?

IMO, plug and play CANbus systems are the future... it's just the makers holding us back by not making the diagnostics or parts readily available (yet).

 

[mike killay]

I do agree, but TranzX's "modus operandi" is to give you the advantages of an (in theory) easily diagnosed CANbus system well below the cost of Bosch or Shimano. Yes, the OP is having trouble finding a dealer who has that system, but even the multitude of Bosch dealers who do have the Bosch diagnostics won't touch your bike unless you bought it from them - and then the costs are hideous.

The whole plug-in CANbus diagnostics thing will come of age when users have their own access to those diagnostics - like TranzX's new bluetooth and phone App system above. Users then know where to look, and for those who can/want to, plug in a replacement display, controller, motor, or battery themselves - or take it back to the shop knowing what the fault actually is. I know the Chinese based systems are easy for you to repair given your considerable experience, but we don't all have a vfr, Woosh, or Neal at our immediate disposal to diagnose and repair our ebikes... and people like you won't be around forever either! What do we electrically-ignorant folk do then?

IMO, plug and play CANbus systems are the future... it's just the makers holding us back by not making the diagnostics or parts readily available (yet).

To my mind, dumping CANBUS etc. is THE way forward.
There is no shame in realising that a new technology does not suit the users. History is full of 'Good Ideas' that fell by the wayside.
Basically, unless it is needed, do not add unnecessary complexity. (That is unless you want to make huge profits)
Possibly the new Right to Repair Act will remove a lot of things which are really just profit making and wasteful.

 

[Kneebiker]

So I visited my local Halfords and explained my issue to a young girl of about 20 behind the bike counter. The look I got was priceless. I suspect I may as well have been speaking Greek. However, to her credit she fetched a old beardy guy from out back. He certainly knew his ebike onions but equally advised me they had never been able to get hold of the software and recently junked a very similar bike on warranty at their cost.

He did say it was worth trying to out battery in and out of hibernation and even disconnect and reconnect the BMS to see if that might clear it. The symptom I described might be heed within the battery bms which would might also explain why I can clear it for a minute by fully disconneting the non power wires between the the controller and battery pins.

Anyway, made some vague sense and worth a try since neither tranzx nor ebco will assist me as an end user and just point me to Halfords or two other shops within 50 miles. Neither of whom say they have the diagnostics and one of whom say they haven't dealt with ebco in years.

All rather frustrating

 

[cyclebuddy]

So which part of the country are you in? Are there any clues as to how the fault happened?

 

[Deleted member 33385]

a old beardy guy from out back

...old beardy guys from the outback are always wise about something. That they had to ditch a similar bike recently, bodes badly.

He did say it was worth trying to out battery in and out of hibernation and even disconnect and reconnect the BMS to see if that might clear it. The symptom I described might be heed within the battery bms which would might also explain why I can clear it for a minute by fully disconneting the non power wires between the the controller and battery pins.

There's a polling interval in messaging between subsystems in most systems, and on an ebike it could be less than a minute, and the CANTbus system seems to be able to communicate on a serial bus of just two non-power wires, which could mean that there is a persistent error being reported somewhere, or it could be permanently shut off until reset by software. If it's in the BMS - is it some sort of weird custom job from EBCO you might not be able to find a replacement for? (if you can't clear it) Would a generic BMS work? Could an absence of data from the generic BMS to the CANTbus result in the same error? I should imagine a battery overheating issue would likely be high priority error, which the user would be well advised to seek help from a servicing centre for, because of the obvious risks.

It's a horrible situation, one which might be a colossal waste of your time to try to resolve... like my lovely amplifier - in theory a great idea when I saw it at a car boot sale, with 500W per channel with room sampling to adjust speakers in real time... It's underground now, ready to be dug up as rare mineral rich ore by whatever species take over the earth, after humans greenhouse gas themselves to death.

 

[Kneebiker]

So which part of the country are you in? Are there any clues as to how the fault happened?

I'm in worthing on South Coast. No idea as not my bike, just occurred to the owner

 

[Kneebiker]

...old beardy guys from the outback are always wise about something. That they had to ditch a similar bike recently, bodes badly.






There's a polling interval in messaging between subsystems is most systems, and on an ebike it could be less than a minute, and the CANTbus system seems to be able to communicate on a serial bus of just two non-power wires, which could mean that there is a persistent error being reported somewhere, or it could be permanently shut off until reset by software. If it's in the BMS - is it some sort of weird custom job from EBCO you might not be able to find a replacement for? (if you can't clear it) Would a generic BMS work? Could an absence of data from the generic BMS to the CANTbus result in the same error? I should imagine a battery overheating issue would likely be high priority error, which the user would be well advised to seek help from a servicing centre for, because of the obvious risks.

It's a horrible situation, one which might be a colossal waste of your time to try to solve... like my lovely amplifier - in theory a great idea when I saw it at a car boot sale, with 500W per channel with room sampling to adjust speakers in real time... It's underground now, ready to be dug up as rare mineral rich ore by whatever species take over the earth, after humans greenhouse gas themselves to death.

So the hibernation mode achieved the same thing. Clears the fault for a minute only.

I can't get into the pack itself as although it has screws it is also heat bonded or glued.

I will have a crack at getting into the motor itself tomorrow, just to see if there is an obviously destroyed motor or fried heat sensor

 

[Deleted member 33385]

disconnect and reconnect the BMS to see if that might clear it.

That might clear memory - volatile memory in the BMS seems safe storage, rarely fully discharged. Or it could be a massive waste of your time. It isn't easy admitting to the fairer sex that you couldn't fix something.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I can't get into the pack itself as although it has screws it is also heat bonded or glued.

Heat gun and prys and time and it still might not work!

 

[cyclebuddy]

I'm in worthing on South Coast.

eBike-Centre workshop
Ebike-Centre are Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano and Trans X accredited, with all the necessary tools and diagnostic systems to keep your ebike running smoothly, with the latest software upgrades.
Annual Servicing from £50.
Please contact us with your specific requirements on 01243 697547
info@ebike-centre.co.uk
Unit 4 Premier Business Park Birdham Road, Chichester PO20 7BU - 28 miles from you.

 

[mike killay]

My point is that CANBUS is not needed on an ebike.
Why fit it? I know that we have some cycling zealots on this forum who like to pretend that they are riding an ordinary pedal cycle, but for most of us, including many ex motor cyclists, the simple Chinese ebike answers best of all.

 

[Nealh]

CANbus simply ties one in to a manufacturer, all is ok until warranty runs out then you get shafted with expensive repairs or a particular brand no longer is in business.
No matter what the end user can't self diagnose or in most cases can't carry out repairs unless it is a minor one.

 

[cyclebuddy]

This is the old Betamax vs VHS argument, isn't it?

As with cars, CANbus is useful for diagnosing faults - plug it in and it tells you exactly what and where the problem is. Not everyone has the skill, knowledge or expertise to fix their own e-bikes, as this forum shows. Being able to take your e-bike into a shop and have even an underpaid unskilled spotty teenager (as they often are) quickly identify what part needs replacing is, I would think, the main advantage?

I get your argument, I just don't agree with it.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I can see the advantage in being able to quickly point to where the general location of the fault on an ebike might be using a CANbus system, but it'd help if they all used a common language and protocols, which could be interpreted using a cheap common device. As it is, decoding the signals is Engima-esque (unless they're open source, which they might be). I can see why they won't do this: revenue streams from patents (tax dodging - the Intellectual Property "rental" to a subsiduary in Jersey is a good one), software licenses, sale of your data from apps (for data mining and who knows what else, some of this is about planning motor and component obsolescence and the rest is the intrusive sale of pretty much everything you say and do on your "Smart" phone ["Smart" phones are for dumb people - I'm one]), customer and showroom retention, licensing deals of unique technology etc. The chippery must be as cheap as chips, made in the zillions for the car industry. Of course closed systems are tempting for ebike manufacturers, but the poor Chinese population will clearly not put up with it. Anything which can't be fixed inexpensively by a local ebike sparkie won't do.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

This is the old Betamax vs VHS argument, isn't it?

Betamax was better.

 

[mike killay]

This is the old Betamax vs VHS argument, isn't it?

As with cars, CANbus is useful for diagnosing faults - plug it in and it tells you exactly what and where the problem is. Not everyone has the skill, knowledge or expertise to fix their own e-bikes, as this forum shows. Being able to take your e-bike into a shop and have even an underpaid unskilled spotty teenager (as they often are) quickly identify what part needs replacing is, I would think, the main advantage?

I get your argument, I just don't agree with it.

No.
If you wanted to record TV you had to have a system, with an ebike it is a matter of
'What you ain't got don't need no fixin.'

 

[cyclebuddy]

'What you ain't got don't need no fixin.'

I don't really follow your thinking. It isn't the CANbus that's failed here: It's something on the OP's bike - motor, battery, controller etc - that isn't (or at least wasn't) working properly. The CANbus has simply recognised there's a fault and is preventing the bike from working until that motor, battery, or controller is checked and/or fixed. Plugging it into a dealer's laptop will say exactly what the fault is and what to do to fix it. If the OP is lucky, it may just need resetting.

I'm saying for the unknowledgeable it's a helpful system. You're saying you'd prefer not to have it. Neither of us is right or wrong - it's simply preference.

This whole thread thus far has simply wasted time trying to guess what's wrong with the OP's bike: If we'd just plugged the bike into a CANbus diagnostic system at the start, the problem would've been identified in minutes and we wouldn't even be here.

 

[Kneebiker]

This whole thread thus far has simply wasted time trying to guess what's wrong with the OP's bike: If we'd just plugged the bike into a CANbus diagnostic system at the start, the problem would've been identified in minutes and we wouldn't even be here.

If I could find anyone to plug the damn thing in into I would!

I've appreciated the help from you all though, thanks

 

[cyclebuddy]

If I could find anyone to plug the damn thing in into I would!

I've appreciated the help from you all though, thanks

Post 51 - ebike centre in Chichester, 28 miles from you, TranzX accredited. It took me 50 minutes to find. I may have one in Brighton too, if they come back to me today.