E10 error on my new ebike

Hi, I have a 48v 1000w front wheel conversion which I have had no problem with. So I decided to buy my sister one as a present. It wasn't the same model but still 48v 1000w. I hooked it up and it went ok but spun backwards. For some reason when I turned the wheel the other way around it would not match up with the forks so I looked online to find a way to reverese the polarity. Someone posted to change any of the 3 phase wires, so I tried it. First I tried switching green and blue and got a rocking motion from the motor. So then I switched green and yellow but nothing happened and nothing has happened since. The unit has gone completely dead. I have power to the throttle as it illuminates and the LCD comes on but shows error code E10. I wondered if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks for any help.

 

Best regards,

 

Albion

I assume that for some reason a hall effect sensor has got damaged, which must be "swapped" with the motor leads when they got swapped. Is my best guess.

These motors have some similarities with 3 phase motors, but the hall effect sensors are needed to switch power to the 3 fields of most e-bike motors today....

May i suggest a tester, which costs little, after you have returned the wiring back to its original state.

Here are some YouTube videos to help you:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7pDTW5SPY:9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7pDTW5SPY:9

Remember, not all testers will have connectors for every single component on any e-bike that fit. So you may need to adapt using say Croc Clips, to get the electrical connection needed.

Best of luck.

regards

Andy

I assume that for some reason a hall effect sensor has got damaged, which must be "swapped" with the motor leads when they got swapped. Is my best guess.

These motors have some similarities with 3 phase motors, but the hall effect sensors are needed to switch power to the 3 fields of most e-bike motors today....

May i suggest a tester, which costs little, after you have returned the wiring back to its original state.

Here are some YouTube videos to help you:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7pDTW5SPY:9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7pDTW5SPY:9

Remember, not all testers will have connectors for every single component on any e-bike that fit. So you may need to adapt using say Croc Clips, to get the electrical connection needed.

Best of luck.

regards

Andy

Hi, thanks for the info. I've ordered one already. I'll give it a go. If it tells me a hall sensor isn't working, what could I do? All the wires look fine so I'm guessing it would be the hall sensor itself. Are these inside the controller? I'm guessing if I locate the faulty one, the first thing to do is test the continuety from the wire at the controller end to the socket. This will tell me if it's the wire or not. If the wire is ok then I would have to replace the sensor itself. Is this correct?

It sounds like either you had some bad advice or you didn't understand it or you you didn't recognise that advice only applies to some circumstances and can have bad consequeces in others.

 

For some sensored motors and their associated controllers, you can change their direction, but not by any of the ways you tried. You can swap ant two phase wires plus the correct two hall wires. If you use any other method, the motor won't be able to turn, and if you attempt to give full power, you will blow the controller sooner or later - normally seconds rather than minutes.

 

Some controllers have self-recognition wires such that when they're joined, the controller does a self diagnosis of the hall and phase wire connections and figures out which sequence to fire the motor pulses. Each time it does the diagnosis, it reverses the direction of the motor. once the motor rotates the correct way, you must disconnect those wires, otherwise it'll start running backwards again.

 

You need to show us which controller you have. I don't mean the label on it,instead we need to see the wires and connectors. A link to the kit would also help. That's also, not or.

Hi, thanks for the info. I've ordered one already. I'll give it a go. If it tells me a hall sensor isn't working, what could I do? All the wires look fine so I'm guessing it would be the hall sensor itself. Are these inside the controller? I'm guessing if I locate the faulty one, the first thing to do is test the continuety from the wire at the controller end to the socket. This will tell me if it's the wire or not. If the wire is ok then I would have to replace the sensor itself. Is this correct?

You just wasted your money. All you need is a normal multimeter, which will be much more useful and versatile than that thing. I have three of those testers, and I think I used one once in more than 10 years of working on ebikes.

Hi, thanks for your reply. Here are some photos. Hope they are clear enough.

It sounds like either you had some bad advice or you didn't understand it or you you didn't recognise that advice only applies to some circumstances and can have bad consequeces in others.

 

For some sensored motors and their associated controllers, you can change their direction, but not by any of the ways you tried. You can swap ant two phase wires plus the correct two hall wires. If you use any other method, the motor won't be able to turn, and if you attempt to give full power, you will blow the controller sooner or later - normally seconds rather than minutes.

 

Some controllers have self-recognition wires such that when they're joined, the controller does a self diagnosis of the hall and phase wire connections and figures out which sequence to fire the motor pulses. Each time it does the diagnosis, it reverses the direction of the motor. once the motor rotates the correct way, you must disconnect those wires, otherwise it'll start running backwards again.

 

You need to show us which controller you have. I don't mean the label on it,instead we need to see the wires and connectors. A link to the kit would also help. That's also, not or.

Not to worry, it only cost me 11.56 so I'm not too fussed. I have a multimeter too so can use that at any point. I have a soldering iron on stand by if I need to whip out a component.

You don't provide a link to the listing.

 

I see that your ignition wire (thin red) is not connected. I'm guessing that's intentional. If you put a switch on that wire, you can switch the whole electrical system on and off with it. Any reliable low power switch will do. You won't need a switch on the battery then.

 

E10 is communicating error between the LCd and the controller, for which there can be a number of reasons. I think you should go back to basics and do all the normal tests and measurements which should reveal the cause of your problem. Set all the wiring back to how it was when you received the kit, then do the tests:

 

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage. 36v - 42v for a 36v battery would be an acceptable range.

2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can measure that between any ground (black) and any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls. It should be around 5v.

3. Check throttle signal wire, which is the one that's not red or black. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle. If there's more than one wire, your meter will find it. It's the one that's between 1v and 4v, assuming that it works.

4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. Measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor. the signal wire is the one that's not red or black.

5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow) on the connector at the controller. They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

 

6. Mosfet test. Disconnect the motor cable and battery from the controller. measure the resistance (200k scale) between the red battery connection and each of the three phase wire connections, then repeat with the black battert wire. eack set of 3 readings should be the same as each other and in the range 7K -22K. Though can be higher as long as they're all the same. Due to the capacitor across the battery wire, you can get a constantantly changing measurement while it charges. In that case, try swapping your probes round. Even though can be a moving result, the only important thing is that all three move in a similar way.

 

If your bike passes all those tests, it should work, so then you can look at any settings or other logical causes, like stuck brake switches, PAS installed backwards.

 

When checking whether the motor will work, always disconnect all unessential connectors, like PAS (if you have a throttle). lights and brakes.

Hi, thanks vfr400. I decided to wait for my tester to arrive. It should be here tomorrow or Thursday. It will be easier to hook up and easier to read. I'll let you know the results. By the way, can you tell me exactly how to hook up the red wire. Does it go between the controller and the throttle?

 

Best Regards

The testers only gives you a LED indication that something may be working but no real world reading of any figures, the meter readings are simpler to understand with phases you are looking for a specific range in numbers when ohms testing and like wise with any 5v reading you want to see any 5v switching on/off correctly.

It's like battery testing you could have an LED to say yes power is seen but it doesn't really give any useful info to help, the tester is much the same and doesn't help you to understand much except that a little LED blinks or not.

Ah, sounds like I'll have to have a go then. I think it will be the weekend though cos I'm a little buy at the moment. The Ebay shop wants me to take it to a repairer and send the bill to them but I wanted to have a go first. It would save all the faff if I could just isolate the problem at least. Does anyone know of a E-bike repair shop? I live in Sheffield.

Tbh no LBS will really touch it because they haven't a clue of how to test, unless it is a branded mid drive type bike which plugs in to a pc. The they are the cleverest ebike repairers in the country, I believe the actual knowledge base amongst most LBS selling ebikes is pretty non existent when it comes to hands on testing of basic dc electrics.

Only some one like Woosh would be tempted or a competent diyer, that's why we end up helping so many people.

Though with meter testing it may mean you can't facilitate a physical repair sometimes, it does/can pin point where the failure is and a possible reason why, in turn reducing the need to guess at what is wrong. In the past we have had folks willy nilly replacing parts and still none the wiser as the bikes still don't work.

Hi, thanks vfr400. I decided to wait for my tester to arrive. It should be here tomorrow or Thursday. It will be easier to hook up and easier to read. I'll let you know the results. By the way, can you tell me exactly how to hook up the red wire. Does it go between the controller and the throttle?

 

Best Regards

The thin red wire is the ignition wire. It should be connected anywhere where it gets the battery voltage, like the main battery connector red. I wasn't thinking before. You don't need a switch because you have one with the LCD. The red wire runs up to the LCD to power it, when on, the LCD connects the red to the blue, which runs back to the controller to power it

I've just blown my tester up. I put the alligator clips onto the throttle connector but they are so close together they must have touched. I can't see how you are supposed to do this. I would need a male connector to loose wires on the throttle. Anyway, I can't see an internal fuse so I guess it's toast.

The guy that keeps recommending those testers has never actually used one. I told you that it was a waste of money. You have to make cable adapters for most bikes to use the tester. By the time you've done that, you would have had your bike tested and fixed using a normal meter. Those meters were quite useful about 10 years ago, when Chinese bikes had a fairly standard wiring layout, and you had about a 50% chance of being able to connect directly, but they're pretty well useless today.

I've just found another way to proceed. I've seen a throttle and controller on ebay for 31 pounds 19 pence. It's 48v 1000w so it would run it and the sockets can be wrong because I can swap them over from mine if I need to. That would't break the bank and it would be an easy fix. Do you think I could trust that the motor in the wheel is ok before I buy?

The guy that keeps recommending those testers has never actually used one. I told you that it was a waste of money. You have to make cable adapters for most bikes to use the tester. By the time you've done that, you would have had your bike tested and fixed using a normal meter. Those meters were quite useful about 10 years ago, when Chinese bikes had a fairly standard wiring layout, and you had about a 50% chance of being able to connect directly, but they're pretty well useless today.

Yes, I wish I would have heard your opinion before I bought. I can't believe there wasn't an internal fuse of some kind.

Hasn't used one but must have shares in them the way he keeps recommending them. Not forgetting this is a bloke who recommends puts rotors on backwards.

The thin red wire is the ignition wire. It should be connected anywhere where it gets the battery voltage, like the main battery connector red. I wasn't thinking before. You don't need a switch because you have one with the LCD. The red wire runs up to the LCD to power it, when on, the LCD connects the red to the blue, which runs back to the controller to power it

Hi, I've just successfully tested the controller and it seems ok. I got the reading from .85 to 3.6 volts so I'm assuming that's a decent range. I tested the 5v rail and got around 4.8v. The main power source came to 53v which is conclusive. But the mosfet test proved negative. Yellow and green came to 15k with the red wire and 8k with the black wire which was ok. But the blue phase tested zero with red and slowly climbed to 8k with black (a very slow climb). The next test will require me to rotate the wheel so I will do that later when I can go outside.

 

f the next tests show the wheel to be working. then I can go ahead and buy another controller. I don't think I want to mess about swapping components.

 

Thanks for your help so far. It has all been worthwhile now I can see a clearer picture.

Edited September 15, 20214 yr by Albion

The guy that keeps recommending those testers has never actually used one. I told you that it was a waste of money. You have to make cable adapters for most bikes to use the tester. By the time you've done that, you would have had your bike tested and fixed using a normal meter. Those meters were quite useful about 10 years ago, when Chinese bikes had a fairly standard wiring layout, and you had about a 50% chance of being able to connect directly, but they're pretty well useless today.

How would/could you know that?

Have you forgotten that I live in Germany, and you certainly don't.

We have never met and we are are not friends, and I usually ignore your rude and coarse manner as much as possible, which is apparently your usual "state" when posting on Pedelec.

So you are again letting your overly imaginative brain, get well beyond the bounds of normal, online good manners again.......Do you realise :-

That's exactly what internet trolls do!

By the way, just so you know, at the end of 2019 possibly, well over a year ago and before COVID, I was invited by a friend of mine who has a bike shop, to watch one of his guys use such a tester.

I asked why he needed it and he says it saves him massive amounts of time when searching for some problem types. Also, he had made adapters for all the bikes that he sells for the tester (he actually has more than one!) and he can often know within minutes exactly what the fault is....... As using meters, often needs far more time and sometimes 4 hands......his words not mine.

I have myself also bought one sometime last year, and other than testing the tester out that it works, I have not had a problem to try it out in ernest yet!

Also, e-bike testers are SO cheap nowadays, and even though I have several multi-meters, a capacitance meter, two 'Scopes and an inductance meter, and the knowledge as how to use them all, I still feel that it was worthwhile buying a tester, so that I can for example connect it to the motor harness and watch the motor fields and the switching of all the hall effect sensors - ALL TOGETHER - and still have hands free to spin the wheel and I only need to connect ONCE.

To do the same with a multi-meter, either I would need 6 meters to check three fields switching and Hall effects switching, to observe them all together (impractical and MOST expensive) or connect 6 times......which is time consuming at the very least and multiplies the number of errors that might be made!

I know that you prefer multi-meters (you do keep telling us all again and again!), but as you are "in the bike business", if I remember correctly, that does seem to be a huge waste of your time......but your personal choice of course!

What you appear to not understand is that many people want a simple "GO NO GO" clear indication, and do not wish to learn how to connect and interpret Meter signals and how different components react.....Which is their free choice of course......

What I simply cannot understand from your standpoint, is to keep telling people that a multi-meter is better, when many of them have not got the training or the background to use one! Of course if you made some videos and documentation available to assist them better, that would be a nice thing to do, but how and when?

Also, that a reasonable quality multi-meter will often cost 50 UK Pounds upwards, but these e-bike test meters start at around 10 UK Pounds, and even if it gets broken, most here will simply go and buy a new one and at around 10 pounds a pop, and still save money over a single meter......

Also, meters, even quality ones, can get quickly damaged by people on the steep learning curve of electrics and electronics! Ones who forget to select the proper range and/or polarity, for example, but that you never seem to mention for some reason.

Just so we are clear, I myself prefer to have BOTH, sorry ALL, types of test instrument available, "just in case!"

That is MY CHOICE! Do you have something against that? :eek:

Why are you always looking out for an argument of some sort, is your ego SO inflated as it appears to be here on the pages of Pedelec.

I do wish most sincerely and hope, that you manage to grow up and soon and learn some better manners and how to use them!.

Do have a great day - I am!:):)

Andy

I've just blown my tester up. I put the alligator clips onto the throttle connector but they are so close together they must have touched. I can't see how you are supposed to do this. I would need a male connector to loose wires on the throttle. Anyway, I can't see an internal fuse so I guess it's toast.

Its always a good idea to use Croc-Clips like these to preven shorts as far as possible:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133789018397?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1f2672691d:g:XnoAAOSwO2Jgx15j&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSHYXPhGXR5uguexJBeHwfgb899fx3gQ2WVDYfgzM9SbLE3X%252BbphmOqRjjd9SRAPcqLKW3VZo2JpL9RgB2ZFJ4%252BnRs9d3mO5gEQdFzTZVZSgxuXCJvVX5IQ%252Bj9x%252BX4caqTZDZMllRekU5P1Icg14jSyAyJQu8m2FRQkCnFf0K6CSJZXCiE6nFLBOrV7nTPxIcjFaHEyJrcRR%252BIVi0NXqn%252BSe3aOhJFfCTCB%252FurLueVCNqlYrnSXjaRRPcvxzWEUYz0vS%252FDAKa8W4r0tk5I4rZBTxvvhmN88WLT1SKBm5gHvrOJU3qlR47%252F36josqiMGEvImYMMFDafQpxgcXZ0%252Fmo9QytXPi%252BHM9bgWCpaSMdqJP7iF%252FWOElmvSB7it3G3jf6b57gKSYODRqXInsthnmRHAe%252F5OqyEz5nQMIVpCB%252FYllhZEZKJSnxhyCi1qBGhVKh%252F0zCJmIn%252FWJ9uI0pnFlOdLXgtroKXc%252BHcYK590bM%252FnNeGS1N%252BjTLK09u0rGwUBehSh%252FBr56ZtuA6LzeRS6SDDZM%252BVXxC2iBN6ioaFIRXxTF3aWqHUeSOej3GLs1L9JSCcQQS3Xz1WO64IEAdAUgDmgh6IoxviDAKVmIr6zGh0b8wYWyQVSiBcKmpOG0vKeHLQXvs2d%252BJgkMSMLzKcQKFGfIEHGgv3Hd6gWmlaI7TEWVF8wFHRpcfsWdKOfvdd7wTztlzQlB8%252BdAN7Cf4OE5TJaFU06E%252FxEuSZuZjzJwoMnB6BsofrnxaMgb8Rh9iqmd2oB94wq5p53h1EY1tjH5IcFnI4HjyAiBOhDAxDjqTtm0HatKjkcfA656nwcl0uLB0TXpYgcwFVU4YbjKNe86zRdQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

Regards

Andy

The Blue phase if showing zero is a failed mosfet.

The Blue phase if showing zero is a failed mosfet.

Thanks, is there a way I can find out which mosfet to change. Not that I probably would. I heard that if one mosfet goes, then so do a whole bunch, but that could be wrong, I don't know. I was just weighing out my options.

Its always a good idea to use Croc-Clips like these to preven shorts as far as possible:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133789018397?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1f2672691d:g:XnoAAOSwO2Jgx15j&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSHYXPhGXR5uguexJBeHwfgb899fx3gQ2WVDYfgzM9SbLE3X%252BbphmOqRjjd9SRAPcqLKW3VZo2JpL9RgB2ZFJ4%252BnRs9d3mO5gEQdFzTZVZSgxuXCJvVX5IQ%252Bj9x%252BX4caqTZDZMllRekU5P1Icg14jSyAyJQu8m2FRQkCnFf0K6CSJZXCiE6nFLBOrV7nTPxIcjFaHEyJrcRR%252BIVi0NXqn%252BSe3aOhJFfCTCB%252FurLueVCNqlYrnSXjaRRPcvxzWEUYz0vS%252FDAKa8W4r0tk5I4rZBTxvvhmN88WLT1SKBm5gHvrOJU3qlR47%252F36josqiMGEvImYMMFDafQpxgcXZ0%252Fmo9QytXPi%252BHM9bgWCpaSMdqJP7iF%252FWOElmvSB7it3G3jf6b57gKSYODRqXInsthnmRHAe%252F5OqyEz5nQMIVpCB%252FYllhZEZKJSnxhyCi1qBGhVKh%252F0zCJmIn%252FWJ9uI0pnFlOdLXgtroKXc%252BHcYK590bM%252FnNeGS1N%252BjTLK09u0rGwUBehSh%252FBr56ZtuA6LzeRS6SDDZM%252BVXxC2iBN6ioaFIRXxTF3aWqHUeSOej3GLs1L9JSCcQQS3Xz1WO64IEAdAUgDmgh6IoxviDAKVmIr6zGh0b8wYWyQVSiBcKmpOG0vKeHLQXvs2d%252BJgkMSMLzKcQKFGfIEHGgv3Hd6gWmlaI7TEWVF8wFHRpcfsWdKOfvdd7wTztlzQlB8%252BdAN7Cf4OE5TJaFU06E%252FxEuSZuZjzJwoMnB6BsofrnxaMgb8Rh9iqmd2oB94wq5p53h1EY1tjH5IcFnI4HjyAiBOhDAxDjqTtm0HatKjkcfA656nwcl0uLB0TXpYgcwFVU4YbjKNe86zRdQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524

Regards

Andy

Thanks Andy. I'm not casting judgement at all. It was probably a good bit of kit. I'm the idiot blowing it up. It wasn't like 100 pounds or anything. Do you know of any way to repair it though, out of interest.