E tricycle advise needed please.

Adwb

Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2022
29
2
I am looking at a tricycle with either 250 watt mid or hub drive.
The retailer says the hub drive is better for hills as it is cadence controlled and the lack of strain on the chain drive.
I have a lot of 12 degree both short and long climbs in my area.
Both options have the Shimano 7 speed Gear hub and a fairly useless 6mph maximum thumb throttle .
Thoughts any one on this ?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,369
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
The retailer says the hub drive is better for hills as it is cadence controlled and the lack of strain on the chain drive.
Hub drives do not stress the chain but crank drives are much better at low speed (less than 10mph), especially if your tricycle does not have a rear differential which helps keep the tricycle stable when cornering.
Crank drives don't loose torque at low speed like hub drives, you retain full control of power. Furthermore, hub drives on tricycles are usually on the front wheel, crank drives power the back wheels, which give you better traction.
I suggest you convert a tricycle with a Bafang BBS01 kit.
 

Adwb

Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2022
29
2
Hub drives do not stress the chain but crank drives are much better at low speed (less than 10mph), especially if your tricycle does not have a rear differential which helps keep the tricycle stable when cornering.
Crank drives don't loose torque at low speed like hub drives, you retain full control of power. Furthermore, hub drives on tricycles are usually on the front wheel, crank drives power the back wheels, which give you better traction.
I suggest you convert a tricycle with a Bafang BBS01 kit.
Thank you , I am less concerned with uphill speed and more with the amount of effort required to be honest. The hub version is on the front wheel and both versions have a differential.
there is little difference in price between the two types but both have the very basic Bafang C961 display which seems very limiting in the ability to alter parameters, although It might be possible to replace it with a better one?
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,855
1,342
When you say 12 degree, do you mean angle of 12 degrees, which is about 1 in 5, or 20% gradient, or 12% gradient, 1 in 8?

The steeper of those needs mid drive.
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,855
1,342

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,917
8,533
61
West Sx RH
There is sign not far from me that says 17% for the incline , though it is not avery long incline.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,369
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Thank you , I am less concerned with uphill speed and more with the amount of effort required to be honest. The hub version is on the front wheel and both versions have a differential.
I mean the hub motors lose rapidly its efficiency and consequently its torque when its rotational speed drops below around 80rpm. This is the common situation when you climb a steep hill. If you have a crank drive, you can use your gears to adapt the motor to the gradient so to increase the torque. The motor's efficiency is also not degraded by steep gradient.

there is little difference in price between the two types but both have the very basic Bafang C961 display which seems very limiting in the ability to alter parameters, although It might be possible to replace it with a better one?
Yes, you can replace the LCD if you need to.
As far as the ability to change parameters, it has the same ability as other Bafang LCDs.
What parameters do you want to change?
 

Adwb

Pedelecer
Dec 2, 2022
29
2
I mean the hub motors lose rapidly its efficiency and consequently its torque when its rotational speed drops below around 80rpm. This is the common situation when you climb a steep hill. If you have a crank drive, you can use your gears to adapt the motor to the gradient so to increase the torque. The motor's efficiency is also not degraded by steep gradient.


Yes, you can replace the LCD if you need to.
As far as the ability to change parameters, it has the same ability as other Bafang LCDs.
What parameters do you want to change?
posibly be able To change parametrs as per
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,369
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
posibly be able To change parametrs as per [Cyrusher XF650]
the C691 LCD has similar facilities, LCD brightness, number of assist levels, wheel diameter, speed limit, units etc are all there. Other engineering parameters like number of magnets on the pedal sensor etc can't or shouldn't be changed are suitably programmed in the BBS01 controller.
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,855
1,342
Yes like that but says 12 and for example Park Street in Bristol is reputed to be 12 and there are many more as steep in Bristol and surrounding areas.
That's not too bad then, 12% is what older signs called 1 in 8. As long as there isn't too much of it about, either motor type should manage.

If you need to be going up steeper than that regularly then crank drive is probably your better choice.

Best always if it is possible to test ride both on the same hills and see what you think.
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,612
493
thurrock essex
Be aware the if you choose a mid-drive the trike will need to have a rear differential , as fitted in the jorvik oden otherwise it will hate going corners under power. This is the reason most trikes are front wheel powered post a link or pic to your choice
But most important try before you buy
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
1,855
1,342
Be aware the if you choose a mid-drive the trike will need to have a rear differential as fitted in the jorvik oden otherwise it will hate going corners under power. This is the reason most trikes are front wheel powered
Good point. I had tadpoles in my mind.
 

Slightlypedantic

Pedelecer
Aug 25, 2022
75
10
East Sussex
I recently fitted a Wooshbikes DWG22C 48Volt hub drive kit to a friend's ICE Trike Adventure 26" (recumbent, tadpole). My friend lives in a very hilly area and, being in his 80s, is not as strong as he once was and limited as to where he could go. He says the conversion changed hill-climbing from very hard work (grinding away in his 22T small ring) to a pleasure. Where he was climbing at 3 or 4 mph, he now does 10mph with ease.

My impressions following a decent test ride: Strong torque at low speed, pulls away effortlessly after about half a turn of the pedals. Goes up steep hills (more than 10%) like a rocket in level 3 with moderate pedalling. I mostly used levels 1 and 2 elsewhere. I can't see when levels 4 and 5 might be needed, but they are there if required. After 15 miles of up and down I still had over 80% battery left. Being a trike, it's often going over the assist speed on the level or downhill, so battery capacity is mainly reserved for hills.

I think this kit would be absolutely fine for up to 12%/1:8 and probably steeper. I didn't fit a thumb throttle. For a bit of help on a hill start, just use the walk assist and then let go once the cadence sensor kicks the motor in. Or be in the right gear in the forst place!

I ride a Cube e-bike with Bosch torque sensor, so I wasn't sure how I would find the cadence sensor system on the trike. Suffice to say, after 15 miles I got off it with a huge grin - it was great fun, especially charging up hills.

Key benefits of the rear hub motor system (compared with crank drive) are relative ease of installation and lower maintenance. there may be a reduction in performance but the hub motor was more than up to the task.

It was necessary to take care routing the cables around the folding frame hinge, the suspension pivot and the handlebars to ensure there was no undue flexing or pulling. Easily done with a bit of care. I used some cable tidy sheathing to protect the cables as well. A pair of home made trestles about 2 feet high lifted the trike to a height where it was easy to work on it. We could also turn it upside down, which was great for fitting the motor wheel and doing the cabling. (Great for routine maintenance too.)

Battery mounting was more of a challenge, but easily solved (by anyone that can use a tape measure, drill and hacksaw). Starting point is the excellent ICE Trikes battery mount (c. £88), which bolts directly to the trike - this solved most of the mounting problems. Unfortunately it is designed for Shimano batteries and is not quite long enough to accept the HL battery supplied by Wooshbikes. I obtained a strip of alloy from a metal fabricator, 200mm long x 60mm wide x 5mm thick. I bolted that to the ICE trike plate using four M5 countersunk bolts, then mounted the battery using three M5 bolts, making that sure the mounting plate did not cover the controller heat sink - apparently this can get fairly warm if the motor has to work hard for long periods, although at level 3 this may not be an issue.

I fitted a 47mm Marathon Plus tyre to the wheel supplied with the motor (25mm wide rim) in order to reduce road shocks for the wheel and motor, and to minimise risk of punctures. These tyres worked fine with the ICE Trike mudguard. It's also had the effect of improving the trike's directional stability at speed.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: Woosh and flecc