E-Bikes: The phenomenon, The Problem.

Alright. Where are the figures? How many of these e-bikes are there? Whats the estimated total distance travelled on them in a year? How many KSIs occurred over that year caused by these e-bikes?

The only issue I see is that "tykes" are seemingly running amok on them and that there aren't enough "ordinary" ebike riders to balance them out (and set an example).

Once Uncle Tom Cobley and all start riding eapcs then the coolness will ebb away and the whole thing will become normalised. Anything that gets in the way of getting Uncle Tom on the things must be treated with suspicion - training, licencing, number-plating, insurance, helmets, etc. etc.

in Gloucester there are teams of them posted out side mc Donald's ect and like 5-10 of them waiting for orders all have 1000w+ hub motors and dont peddle and use throttles the iq of these ppl is little to none.

given those and all the hire scooters and near every kid on a scooter the middle of Gloucester some nights is mayhem and most dont even have a helmet.

i have only seen one bosch bike used for delivery but it is pointless as the time you have delivered one order the hub bike has done 3 in the same distance.

i like going fast and taking risks but not for 3 quid for a burger king meal but the faster you go the more orders you can make money on.

pc plod dont even need to get off there ass any more and can have it delivered to there car window

The machine in that video clearly isn't an EPAC - it's a motor bike.

It seems that just because the motive power is electric rather than an internal combustion engine, then the authorities don't/won't do anything about it.

Imagine the uproar if our streets and pavements were invaded by internal combustion engined bikes - there'd be some action then from the police I'm sure.

So why is the issue broadly ignored just because the motor is electric?

In the meantime those reckless, thoughless individuals riding around on their electric motorbikes are getting referred to as ebikers and dragging us legitimate EPAC riders into the fray.

Edited July 12, 20232 yr by Bikes4two

I agree with BlackBeltBarrister 100%. I'm seeing more and more of them where I live. I've been on this forum for 12 years. Every couple of months, somebody comes up with Hysteria about illegal bikes. My attitude has always been live and let live. It's not for me to judge people. I only try to help them. What I'm seeing now is starting to get out of hand.

In all these years, the police have never taken an interest because there hasn't really been much of a problem. For the first time, I predict that we're going to see a lot more police activity now, starting with them targeting the delivery driders, but that will tune our friends in blue to what an ebike is and what's allowed, so any normal rider that is doing anything that stands out a bit is going to get their collar felt. I think most of us don't have anything to worry about, but there's always the chance that you might get caught up in blanket police check, so probably best to make a label that says 15.5 mph, 250w and the manufacturer's name of at least the motor if you don't have such a label or plaque on your bike.

To make the label you need a laser printer or photocopier. 2" wide self-adhesive aluminium tape (DIY shop) and wide selotape.

Design the label on your PC

Print it on normal paper

Fix the aluminium tape directly over the print with a Pritt stick or by tacking it in place with selotape just holding its edges. Leave the backing on for now.

Put it back in the printer and print again. Same if you're using a photocopier.

Now the aluminium should be printed.

Remove it from the paper

Cover the whole thing with wide selotape being careful not to get creases.

Cut to size

Peel off backing and stick on motor.

The selotape over the label is only to make it weather-proof. You can use any other clear adhesive film or spray it with clear lacquer.

here's what the label should look like:

There are a few on Ebay. They look not bad, but I didn't see any with all the necessary info, though some look convincing enough:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=250w+label&_sacat=0

Edited July 11, 20232 yr by saneagle

This is a typical BlackBeltBarrister video, pretty much content free and you'll learn nothing you probably didn't already know.

He's done feck all research, like pretty much every video of his I've watched (I don't any more).

He jumped on the Johhny Depp / Amber Turd case and has been plugging whatever happens to be in news since with clickbait titles....avoid...

To make the label you need a laser printer or photocopier. 2" wide self-adhesive aluminium tape (DIY shop) and wide selotape.

Design the label on your PC

Print it on normal paper

Fix the aluminium tape directly over the print with a Pritt stick or by tacking it in place with selotape just holding its edges. Leave the backing on for now.

Put it back in the printer and print again. Same if you're using a photocopier.

Now the aluminium should be printed.

Remove it from the paper

Cover the whole thing with wide selotape being careful not to get creases.

Cut to size

Peel off backing and stick on motor.

I have a Carrera with an Ezee kit (no markings on the motor), and will shortly be doing a kit conversion on a recumbent. What label should be on these bikes?

I have a Carrera with an Ezee kit (no markings on the motor), and will shortly be doing a kit conversion on a recumbent. What label should be on these bikes?

You need the power of the motor (250w) and the maximum speed of the bike under power. IIRC, you can put the manufacturer's details as an alternative to one of them, but I can't remember which one - best to put all three. On mine, I mentioned compliance with EN 165194 and added a nice CE mark. Regarding printing on the aluminium tape, I found that the genuine laser ink cartridge worked OK but not the cheap alternatives.

Peel off backing and stick on motor.

The law says the label must be on the bike in an accessible position, as your photo shows.

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I have a Carrera with an Ezee kit (no markings on the motor), and will shortly be doing a kit conversion on a recumbent. What label should be on these bikes?

Confirmed as below by James Brown, International Vehicle Standards, Department for Transport:

"As part of the GB EAPC amending legislation, that will come into force on 6 April 2015, the requirement for the marking identification has been amended. Previously a plate showing the manufacturer, maximum continuous rated power output and voltage was necessary, from April 6 2015 the requirement will be that the manufacturer, maximum continuous rated output and maximum assisted cutoff speed shall be marked on the cycle."

This should be in the form of a plate or permanent label bearing all three items of information, mounted in a prominent easily read location on the bicycle.

For the manufacturer name on a conversion, I suggest you use the kit or motor manufacturer name.

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The law says the label must be on the bike in an accessible position, as your photo shows.

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I think by accessible, they mean somewhere where you can read it, not somewhere where the policeman won't get his knees dirty when kneeling by the motor. It's clear that they have the ide of it being on a main frame tube or something like that, but that's not what they wrote. It's a bit like that phrase where they said the cut off power should be gradually reduced at 25 km/hr, but they didn't specify a rate of gradualness.

I think by accessible, they mean somewhere where you can read it, not somewhere where the policeman won't get his knees dirty when kneeling by the motor. It's clear that they have the ide of it being on a main frame tube or something like that, but that's not what they wrote. It's a bit like that phrase where they said the cut off power should be gradually reduced at 25 km/hr, but they didn't specify a rate of gradualness.

I disagree, and why invite trouble?

The law says "the cycle be fitted with a plate securely fixed in a conspicuous and readily accessible position, visibly and durably marked". Other legislation, such as that for the old VED licence discs has always stressed the accessibility for ease of reading, and that is clearly the intention here.

Co-operation is always the best policy in any dealings with the police.

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Edited July 12, 20232 yr by flecc

This should be in the form of a plate or permanent label

Whats the definitation of all that and in particular 'permanent'

All the labels seen in this thread at least appear to be removable so not 'permanent'.

Whats the definitation of all that and in particular 'permanent'

"Securely fixed" is the definition. So a weatherproof self adhesive label if applied to a clean surface suffices.

Always remember that it is ultimately the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law that matters.

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Whats the definitation of all that and in particular 'permanent'

 

All the labels seen in this thread at least appear to be removable so not 'permanent'.

It means not a tag on a piece of string that you can hook around the handlebars of any bike, and not a fridge magnet type label that could also be transferred.

After reading through many posts here and elsewhere, I'm still not clear on how the law applies to kits and/or bikes manufactured before 6th April 2015. My two bikes are as follows:-

Forme Hybrid 2014 model year. Yose 250w. kit

Giant GSR400 MTB 1992. 350w. kit.

Both kits purchased and fitted this year.

The 250w. kit on the Forme is restricted to 15.5mph and cannot be altered in the settings.

The max speed of the 350w. kit on the Giant can be changed.

Both Yose hubs have CE and UK stickers and the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626, which I interpret as Aikema, 350w. 36v. 26" wheels, but I'm not sure that the average plod could.

Both kits are on bikes manufactured before 2015 - so exempt?

Both are kits and the legislation doesn't apply to kits?

On the face of it, the 250w. Forme is legal anyway, except I have derestricted the throttle, but this would be OK if either of the above apply?

Both bikes look fairly innocuous and are ridden by a 71-year old codger, so the chances of me attracting the attention of HM Constabulary are probably remote unless I'm involved in an accident. I'm tempted to get some of those ebay stickers, but if I am breaking the law with either or both and I'm investigated that will surely get me in even more trouble.

I suppose while yoofs are hairing around on illegal pedal-less electric motorbikes I shouldn't worry too much?

After reading through many posts here and elsewhere, I'm still not clear on how the law applies to kits and/or bikes manufactured before 6th April 2015. My two bikes are as follows:-

 

Forme Hybrid 2014 model year. Yose 250w. kit

Giant GSR400 MTB 1992. 350w. kit.

Both kits purchased and fitted this year.

 

The 250w. kit on the Forme is restricted to 15.5mph and cannot be altered in the settings.

The max speed of the 350w. kit on the Giant can be changed.

 

Both Yose hubs have CE and UK stickers and the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626, which I interpret as Aikema, 350w. 36v. 26" wheels, but I'm not sure that the average plod could.

 

Both kits are on bikes manufactured before 2015 - so exempt?

Both are kits and the legislation doesn't apply to kits?

On the face of it, the 250w. Forme is legal anyway, except I have derestricted the throttle, but this would be OK if either of the above apply?

 

Both bikes look fairly innocuous and are ridden by a 71-year old codger, so the chances of me attracting the attention of HM Constabulary are probably remote unless I'm involved in an accident. I'm tempted to get some of those ebay stickers, but if I am breaking the law with either or both and I'm investigated that will surely get me in even more trouble.

I suppose while yoofs are hairing around on illegal pedal-less electric motorbikes I shouldn't worry too much?

Both kits fitted this year, so that is the year of pedelec manufacture so technically you should obey the post 2015 usage law on the 250 watt machine.

The 350 watt should be taken through type approval as an L1e-A or L1e-B moped, according to the assist speed restriction setting, then registered as a motor vehicle.

BUT:

Your last sentence says it all, the risks to you of not doing so are very small, so it for you to make that decision. If you are a very careful rider with little risk of ever seriously injuring anyone, you may think it a worthwhile risk.

.

After reading through many posts here and elsewhere, I'm still not clear on how the law applies to kits and/or bikes manufactured before 6th April 2015. My two bikes are as follows:-

 

Forme Hybrid 2014 model year. Yose 250w. kit

Giant GSR400 MTB 1992. 350w. kit.

Both kits purchased and fitted this year.

 

The 250w. kit on the Forme is restricted to 15.5mph and cannot be altered in the settings.

The max speed of the 350w. kit on the Giant can be changed.

 

Both Yose hubs have CE and UK stickers and the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626, which I interpret as Aikema, 350w. 36v. 26" wheels, but I'm not sure that the average plod could.

 

Both kits are on bikes manufactured before 2015 - so exempt?

Both are kits and the legislation doesn't apply to kits?

On the face of it, the 250w. Forme is legal anyway, except I have derestricted the throttle, but this would be OK if either of the above apply?

 

Both bikes look fairly innocuous and are ridden by a 71-year old codger, so the chances of me attracting the attention of HM Constabulary are probably remote unless I'm involved in an accident. I'm tempted to get some of those ebay stickers, but if I am breaking the law with either or both and I'm investigated that will surely get me in even more trouble.

I suppose while yoofs are hairing around on illegal pedal-less electric motorbikes I shouldn't worry too much?

It's absolutely moronic legislation. While a rating plate on a mid-drive motor makes sense as the controller and motor are combined in one unit on a hub motor ebike it is the controller that dictates power. A hub motor just takes the power it is given, on a direct drive hub motor this could be anywhere from 200W to 3000W and on a geared hub motor you have a reduced range but its common for 350W geared hub motors to be used with 250W controllers on shop bought ebikes. A high power Bosch based mid-drive ebike is pulling close to 800W going up hills. This whole wattage thing is a complete mess in the legislation. 250W was a ridiculously low limit for general use and just about no ebike is really 250W. It's almost as if 250W label is just used for 15.5mph speed limit. Why in the UK we should have a 15.5mph limit anyway is another question. A 20mph assisted limit would fit in well with our urban roads. I suspect 25km/h is something that works well in Europe for many urban centres but should never have been used here.

I think the policing policy for ebikes needs some serious time spent on it to understand the full issues and we need new laws for how ebikes are used and ridden on shared paths. The whole wattage thing is a nonsense. Hills are often one of the big reasons people are put off cycling and people need decent wattage for going up steep hills. It should be a fair and level playing field for all types of ebikes, not penalise one type of ebike but give other types a free pass when they use high wattage. However I really don't think the legislation should be focused on wattage at all. It should be focused on bike assistance speed, bike weight and size. I guess acceleration perhaps should be limited too which can take people off-guard.

I think proper UK specific ebike legislation would be ideal with a fair certification process. Simple legislation that the police can easily follow and make simple tests of the ebike to show its legality, speed, weight, acceleration etc. No legal check should just be seeing if there is a sticker in the right place because a policeman won't be able to follow through and know if that sticker is valid with manufacturer certification checks.

Both Yose hubs have CE and UK stickers and the model number and "Yosepower" is engraved on the hub eg. AKM22041404012 95RS.R350-3626, which I interpret as Aikema, 350w. 36v. 26" wheels, but I'm not sure that the average plod could.

Aikema motors normally have easy-peal labels. Does yours have one?

Edit: I just see that you wrote engraved. Bad luck! Or are you saying only "Yosepower" is engraved?

Edited July 12, 20232 yr by saneagle

I doubt there will be a massive general crackdown, there aren't enough cops. Reducing antisocial ebiker behaviour on high streets is about all they have manpower for. Sneaky Sunak is doing the best he can to not make waves.

The BBS01B has 250W engraved underneath the motor. My plan if challenged is to flip the bike over, thus making view of it accessible... it's also engaved large therefore accessible for shortsighted cops to read. I'd also show them the speed limit on my display. I might even let them ride it around a bit, if they give me their police car keys or the equivalent (ever increasing, it's a money pit is cycling) of my bike's value in cash.

Two years ago, ebay had laminated paper stickers with speed limit as well as power. How about a cheap £5 custom engraved plaque? Engraved with:

BAFANG

Model: BBS01B

EPAC according to EN 15194

250W, 25km/h

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374004673560

There are oodles of trophy shops near me, where I could pay more than twice as much. There's already a CE mark on the motor (or was, there has been much riding through rain and mud since I looked last). I could simply araldite or superglue+baking soda the plaque to the motor.

Edited July 12, 20232 yr by guerney

Aikema motors normally have easy-peal labels. Does yours have one?

No they don't. The engraving includes "AKM" and the model references 95RS and 95RX. "Yosepower" is also engraved on them. The only labels are a round one "CE" and a square one "UK CA". I'm assuming that this is because the motors are OEM for Yose by Aikema.

It's absolutely moronic legislation.

Everything you said makes sense. Some of us have been saying the same for years. You would think that the legislation and regulations would be have been done by professionals that understand simple principles, but in practice they seem to have been done by a bunch of rank amateurs - probably part-time students as a project. Wasn't there some consultation about it involving BEBA? Where's Wisper? They were invoved with that. what happened to BEBA? Instead of sorting out this mess, it seems that they're more interested in selling us lights and swimming pools:

https://www.beba-online.co.uk/#:~:text=The%20British%20Electric%20Bicycle%20Association%20was%20formed%20by%20some%20of,to%20create%20an%20industry%20standard.

Why in the UK we should have a 15.5mph limit anyway is another question. A 20mph assisted limit would fit in well with our urban roads. I suspect 25km/h is something that works well in Europe for many urban centres but should never have been used here.

It's not a matter of it working well in Europe.

It's simply that motor vehicle legislation starts at 25kph with the L1A class, aka Low Powered Moped. Anything that powers to or above that is a motor vehicle. The mention of power phase down to 25 kph in pedelec legislation means they just escape that classification.

However, this law is not a problem. The problem is that in the UK we require all L1e-A and L1e-B to be registered, number plated, ridden with a driving licence etc. If we simply modify that to suit there is no problem, and we could even have done that as an EU member, since usage law is entirely a matter for member nations.

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No they don't. The engraving includes "AKM" and the model references 95RS and 95RX. "Yosepower" is also engraved on them. The only labels are a round one "CE" and a square one "UK CA". I'm assuming that this is because the motors are OEM for Yose by Aikema.

That's not what Cadence said. Let them answer.