E-Bikes, the cost case

[GSol]

some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

If only my bike had space for a bumper-sticker saying that!

 

[johnc461165]

E Biking is pleasure driving is a pain

 

[103Alex1]

For those who get rid of a car and buy an e-bike instead, the savings are very real, but anyone buying an e-bike as well as keeping the car in the hope of cutting overall transport costs is doomed to disappointment. That just makes life more costly.

Yes indeed .. it's very clinical just to look at this in terms of car vs. bike costs but I'm one of those who has ditched the car. I got rid of it about a month ago now. It was 5 years old £13k when new, and had to top up what it fetched to buy the bike. Not expecting to save money over the 1st year on insurance or depreciation at all. However, I'm saving a fortune in parking, parking tickets and fuel especially on short trips around town. If I have to travel further afield by train then as long as it's irregular the costs are roughly the same as using the car provided it's not in peak times.

The biggest consequence of getting the bike is that I've completely changed my horizons and lifestyle on account of having it. Used to take the car here, there and everywhere around the country every week with astronomic fuel bills, and drive way too tired to avoid cost of nights away. Sometimes the travel was for work (changed that too as part of it all) but mostly for recreation. So I've scaled down the range of things I do and found new things too (aside from the bike itself which is always a recreation even on necessary trips ). Most cost fractions of what I used to spend, so the indirect savings from the lifestyle change are enormous.

It was also far too easy to drive to the airport and pop abroad for a couple of days, roughly once a month. I can't reconcile the costs and time-inefficiency of getting to airports on public transport now so haven't bothered. Getting rid of the car has forced me to look locally for what is on my doorstep and make the most of that instead. It might not suit forever but for at least a year I'm going to stick with it and there's loads to keep me interested.

In short, the amount of money I won't spend by having a car to jump into and hair off in is very considerable. Not to mention the eye-watering tobacco bill I'm saving myself as driving brought on an incurable urge to smoke. I can still get a lift if I really need one, within reason, which is nice as I've spent years giving free lifts to other people.

Variable financial costs of bike vs car ownership = no brainer.
Indirect benefits of bike = incalculable

E Biking is pleasure driving is a pain

How very true. I find being a car passenger even worse. Spent all of a trip home from a day out last weekend wishing I was cycling home instead .

 

[Woosh]

One cheap solution to control cost is long term rental from Woosh.
Minimum rental is 2 months.
We rent out Woosh Monos for £30 per month, suitable for very short daily commute, up to 6 miles/day (eg to railway stations). For longer commute, up to 12 miles/day Woosh Siroccos for £45 per month.
Delivery of your bike costs £17 if needed.

Hatti

 

[indalo]

Yes indeed .. it's very clinical just to look at this in terms of car vs. bike costs but I'm one of those who has ditched the car. I got rid of it about a month ago now. It was 5 years old £13k when new, and had to top up what it fetched to buy the bike. Not expecting to save money over the 1st year on insurance or depreciation at all. However, I'm saving a fortune in parking, parking tickets and fuel especially on short trips around town. If I have to travel further afield by train then as long as it's irregular the costs are roughly the same as using the car provided it's not in peak times.

The biggest consequence of getting the bike is that I've completely changed my horizons and lifestyle on account of having it. Used to take the car here, there and everywhere around the country every week with astronomic fuel bills, and drive way too tired to avoid cost of nights away. Sometimes the travel was for work (changed that too as part of it all) but mostly for recreation. So I've scaled down the range of things I do and found new things too (aside from the bike itself which is always a recreation even on necessary trips ). Most cost fractions of what I used to spend, so the indirect savings from the lifestyle change are enormous.

It was also far too easy to drive to the airport and pop abroad for a couple of days, roughly once a month. I can't reconcile the costs and time-inefficiency of getting to airports on public transport now so haven't bothered. Getting rid of the car has forced me to look locally for what is on my doorstep and make the most of that instead. It might not suit forever but for at least a year I'm going to stick with it and there's loads to keep me interested.

In short, the amount of money I won't spend by having a car to jump into and hair off in is very considerable. Not to mention the eye-watering tobacco bill I'm saving myself as driving brought on an incurable urge to smoke. I can still get a lift if I really need one, within reason, which is nice as I've spent years giving free lifts to other people.

Variable financial costs of bike vs car ownership = no brainer.
Indirect benefits of bike = incalculable



How very true. I find being a car passenger even worse. Spent all of a trip home from a day out last weekend wishing I was cycling home instead .

Blimey Alex, I feel I could have written very much the same story!

I empathise with every sentiment you have expressed and I love your choice of bike. Although I have recently changed my car, (can't do without one) there are just so many shortish trips, a bit too far to walk which, had I not purchased an ebike, would have been undertaken by car. Although, overall, the economics are good, the other benefits which I consider to be direct rather than indirect, are as described.

Ebike, bus pass, judiciously selected rail travel and learning how to fly with only hand luggage on budget airlines......all put together, the world is one's whelk and that has to be the way to go for older people.

After seeing yesterday's headline suggesting older people should be forced to work for their pensions, I'm left to wonder how much longer this "golden age" can last so I think we older ones should enjoy it all while we still have the opportunity. Incidentally, I thought I had already done the work and earned my right to a pension.

Indalo

 

[103Alex1]

Although, overall, the economics are good, the other benefits which I consider to be direct rather than indirect, are as described.

..

Ebike, bus pass, judiciously selected rail travel and learning how to fly with only hand luggage on budget airlines......all put together, the world is one's whelk and that has to be the way to go for older people.

After seeing yesterday's headline suggesting older people should be forced to work for their pensions, I'm left to wonder how much longer this "golden age" can last so I think we older ones should enjoy it all while we still have the opportunity. Incidentally, I thought I had already done the work and earned my right to a pension.

Indalo

Enjoy the "Golden Age" .. at least someone's getting a good run at it. I've little doubt there will be no such pleasures for my generation (40 is creeping up fast but not there yet, so I've a good way left to go before retirement is on the cards ) .. truth is lots of us have had a pretty good time of it during our younger years. I guess there's only so much to go round in a lifetime and for my own part I'm glad of having been able to travel and enjoy so much of life at an age when I can get the most out of it. Not getting married and having kids in one's 20s certainly helped !

Sustaining 10-14mph up the nearby 2 mile 1:7.5 hill this afternoon was quite enough of a workout for me at the moment, 250watts or no 250watts. It's about half way you're reminded of the fact you're powering nearly 30kg of bike and "stuff" up there .. and it's blooming hard work whatever age you are ! Feeling like a teenager again road-testing windstopper thermals coasting through the 30mph barrier on the way back down .. and having to brake for the speed camera at the foot of the hill on the edge of town .. priceless

Incidentally, vintage Colnagos and Bob Jackson Touring bikes are well and truly "in vogue" with some of my younger City-dwelling friends, who have shunned the 'carbon-fetish' revolution .. it seems classic looks and quality never grow old. Wonder how long it'll be before they start thinking about converting them !

 

[flecc]

having to brake for the speed camera at the foot of the hill on the edge of town .. priceless

No need to. UK speed limits only apply to motor vehicles, and e-bikes are classed as bicycles, exempt from most motor vehicle laws. Very few of these cameras are able to pick up a cyclist anyway, I've never been able to trigger one, even at more than 50% above the limit downhill.

 

[Cyclezee]

One cheap solution to control cost is long term rental from Woosh.
Minimum rental is 2 months.
We rent out Woosh Monos for £30 per month, suitable for very short daily commute, up to 6 miles/day (eg to railway stations). For longer commute, up to 12 miles/day Woosh Siroccos for £45 per month.
Delivery of your bike costs £17 if needed.

Hatti

Interesting Hatti,

Do you have many rental customers and what about insurance, is that included?

Regards,

 

[neptune]

I have had a bus pass for more than two years, but never used it. I would use it if I could take my bike on the bus. This is possible in the USA and some other countries, where bike racks are fitted to the front of buses. I could possibly use a folder, but I havent got one at present.

 

[Woosh]

Interesting Hatti,

Do you have many rental customers and what about insurance, is that included?

Regards,

Hi John,
Its difficult I think to actually make money out of the scheme unless there are substantial numbers of potential renters.
We actually started with e bikes thinking that we were going to rent them - we hadn't thought we would sell many. Yep, Southend is not high on the tourist map but we still thought we would pick up a fair amount of business from commuters going to London by train, day trippers and locals...but we were on the completely wrong track. Hardly anyone wanted to rent - they just wanted to buy.
Since then we thought that the above scheme but extended to long term rental - say for a minimum of 2 months - would possibly help to boost sales by allowing people to try a bike for a while.
They might not be so daunted by the prospect of full ownership although they would still have to look after the bike properly during use. It could then also lead them on to buying something.
So far we have only done this for a handful of people. It has worked well but I doubt that it can be scaled up to a larger operation.
Question also is what happens to the bikes after they have been rented. Of course they can be serviced and re rented and finally sold second hand (we have done this through our forecourt sales a few times) but there is obviously a cost involved.
We have a very simple rental agreement. If you'd like a copy(or anyone else does) please PM me.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Hatti,

I will send you a PM

 

[rgh]

Can I up grade my CB26 IZIP so it will go at a much faster speed.if so what would I need and what would be the cost please.
I'm new to E Bikes have only bought my second hand one about a month ago.

 

[Scimitar]

Can I up grade my CB26 IZIP so it will go at a much faster speed.if so what would I need and what would be the cost please.
I'm new to E Bikes have only bought my second hand one about a month ago.

Start a new thread about it - tacked on to the end of this one it'll be buried and overlooked.

 

[morphix]

One cheap solution to control cost is long term rental from Woosh.
Minimum rental is 2 months.
We rent out Woosh Monos for £30 per month, suitable for very short daily commute, up to 6 miles/day (eg to railway stations). For longer commute, up to 12 miles/day Woosh Siroccos for £45 per month.
Delivery of your bike costs £17 if needed.

Hatti

If you're self-employed or running a business bike lease/rental makes a lot of sense as it's tax deductible, maybe not fully though if you're using the bike for personal use as well as work.

 

[rgh]

ok Thanks Dave. I'm new to this site so I'm still stumbling my way around

 

[Andys]

Missing the point

What about depreciation of car, insurance,road tax ?

Assuming 40 mpg (highly unlikely) the fuel alone is £300 so really dont see where you are getting 20p a mile from ? (AA figures are usually at least 40p a mile even for a small car).

Of course your average per mile in car is almost certainly based on the fact that you do far more than 2000 miles a year in the car so spreading these other costs over more miles ?

How do the figures stack up if you assume that you only do 2000 miles a year in car ?

so full years depreciation,tax,insurance,servicing and fuel for 2000 miles all count ?

By the way I do agree that if already have the expense of running a car that there is no/limited real savings in owning a ebike but feel your figures dont show the whole picture and will vary enormously from one person to another.

A lot of the responses seem to miss the point; the original post was about costs "if you need to keep the car". Frankly, if you are not replacing a car then an E-bike does not make financial sense. That does not stop it being a sensible purchase; just that you need different criteria to "justify" your purchase.

 

[GaRRy]

A lot of the responses seem to miss the point; the original post was about costs "if you need to keep the car". Frankly, if you are not replacing a car then an E-bike does not make financial sense. That does not stop it being a sensible purchase; just that you need different criteria to "justify" your purchase.

Ah but that was my point he did not make that clear.

 

[yselmike]

You never have to ¨justify¨ the purchase of a bike E or otherwise.

 

[JuicyBike]

Having the choice of an electric bike can replace the shortest of your combustion driven trips, those that use the most fuel and are the most damaging to the combustion engine.

After 5 miles a combustion engine may only just be reaching its best efficiency, having spent that distance heating up and finally settling into its designed state. Components will have suffered the most wear and tear during this period. And the driver, searching for that elusive parking space will have suffered too.

The savings associated with replacing these type of combustion journeys are considerably higher than against average combustion costs.

So I think it best to keep a choice of vehicles: A Van, A Car, A Scooter, An Electric Bike and some Electric Stilts (which we're still working on...) and match the vehicle to the journey to make best savings.

 

[Patrick]

Ah but that was my point he did not make that clear.

To be fair, the first line of the origonal post is "If you need to retain a car there isn't one !" which is pretty clear. Not that that stopped me from missunderstanding the post as well.