E-bikes declared illegal to use on European roads without insurance

[Deleted member 22539]

Well.. ebikes should be banned anyway.. If you can't ride a bike without a motor then you shouldn't be allowed out on the road! That is according to a licra clad speedster who I has bested on a hill but then caught me up at the lights..

If you can’t ride a bike without Lycra I think you seriously need to look at yourself
What an opinionated twat .

 

[BillyBoy88]

I saw somewhere today that the EU are saying racing motor vehicles should have 3rd party insurance, but no one will provide it as it is too risky.

 

[Gubbins]

If you can’t ride a bike without Lycra I think you seriously need to look at yourself
What an opinionated twat .

What was interesting about it was.. it was a sort of friendly conversation..

 

[Deleted member 22539]

What was interesting about it was.. it was a sort of friendly conversation..

That makes a pleasant change

 

[oyster]

But the elephant in the room is that if compulsory it means registration and number plates, otherwise it couldn't be policed. That on all bicycles is hardly acceptable and why almost everywhere it's been tried it's subsequently been dropped.

A more viable alternative is a compensation fund, financed by a levy on each bike sold. It could be run by a Cycle Insurance Bureau, just like the Motor Insurance Bureau covers claims when drivers aren't insured.

Our bike sales run at around 2.5 million a year so the levy would be small since bikes rarely cause a really costly accident.
.

I am not at all convinced that number plates are necessary. At one time, yes, there was not the technology to do otherwise. Now, we could chip every bicycle. (Of course, there are arguments against doing that. Just identifying one option.)

It still has the same gross unfairness that MIB results in - those who pay having to pay again. (Not that the MIB shouldn't exist and I have no better idea as to how it could work and be funded.)

I suspect that if there were mandatory insurance, more people would pursue claims for things like scratches to cars, even when done by children. No idea what the number of settlements of claims in the UK currently runs at (whether through legal channels, or just person-to-person passing over a few fivers).

 

[oyster]

I saw somewhere today that the EU are saying racing motor vehicles should have 3rd party insurance, but no one will provide it as it is too risky.

Just had a very quick search - some people saying they think they are already covered. Surely, that must be the case? At least anywhere that there are spectators or a vehicle could cause damage off the track.

And things like rallies and Isle of Man TT certainly seem to have to be insured.

 

[flecc]

It still has the same gross unfairness that MIB results in - those who pay having to pay again.

I think that's the choice, either unfairly financed cover or no insurance compulsion. I prefer the latter, the less law the better for cycling.
.

 

[RobF]

If the nanny Euro state wants ebikes to be insured, then it must follow all bikes should be insured - the road risks posed being identical.

While I agree this proposal is a non-starter, the interfering busybodies do need to be reminded at every opportunity what sensible folk think of them.

 

[LeighPing]

That makes a pleasant change

A much better opinion than the last one.

 

[grahamx]

all this is is another way to tax you for profit!

Wonder if we will be able to buy this insurance from the local newsagent /corner shop....like the proposed "porn pass" for the over 18's

 

[Wicky]

Fiirst I'd want those wanting to impose such insurance measures to produce figures showing there was a significant problem with pedelecs causing/being involved in accidents involving others.

Wasn't there a similar scare about off road motorised vehicles needing insurance a short while ago?

Edit: Here it is https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/machinery/insurance-hike-fears-for-offroad-vehicles-after-european-court-ruling-on-farm-death-36062405.html

 

[anotherkiwi]

Fiirst I'd want those wanting to impose such insurance measures to produce figures showing there was a significant problem with pedelecs causing/being involved in accidents involving others.

Wasn't there a similar scare about off road motorised vehicles needing insurance a short while ago?

Edit: Here it is https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/machinery/insurance-hike-fears-for-offroad-vehicles-after-european-court-ruling-on-farm-death-36062405.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/older-men-using-e-bikes-behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists

The "nanny Euro state" does not pull these things out of their hat, lobbyists push for them to go through. As usual follow the money... I think the insurance lobby might be the ones trying to push this through the agenda.

 

[Wicky]

Interesting Grauniad aticle with some figures but a bit vague on detailed analysis on circumstances leading to increase of deaths

Apart from claiming speed and getting on and off pedelecs was decimating riders. Could the increase of deaths of elderly pedelecers be simply in line with increase of sales of pedelecs on the road...

Quick question to pedelecers here in light of this

"We should not underestimate how many accidents happen among the elderly when getting on and off an e-bike. Such a bicycle is heavier than a regular one. " Peter van der Knaap, director of the Dutch Road Safety Research Foundation

How many folk here have suffered injuries needing hospital treament mounting or dismounting? and even if there was what difference would having third party insurance make? as having an accident in this way wouldn't likely involve other vehicles. Surely compulsury personal injury insurance would make more sense for wobbly over 55s (me in two days time! - but that will be due to visiting Real ale beer fest on my 55th burpday)...

 

[flecc]

Peter van der Knaap, director of the Dutch Road Safety Research Foundation

I'm amazed they have one, he must be a very lonely man with no-one there listening to him:

See this video of alternative cycling there
.

 

[Gubbins]

Interesting Grauniad aticle with some figures but a bit vague on detailed analysis on circumstances leading to increase of deaths

Apart from claiming speed and getting on and off pedelecs was decimating riders. Could the increase of deaths of elderly pedelecers be simply in line with increase of sales of pedelecs on the road...

Quick question to pedelecers here in light of this

"We should not underestimate how many accidents happen among the elderly when getting on and off an e-bike. Such a bicycle is heavier than a regular one. " Peter van der Knaap, director of the Dutch Road Safety Research Foundation

How many folk here have suffered injuries needing hospital treament mounting or dismounting? and even if there was what difference would having third party insurance make? as having an accident in this way wouldn't likely involve other vehicles. Surely compulsury personal injury insurance would make more sense for wobbly over 55s (me in two days time! - but that will be due to visiting Real ale beer fest on my 55th burpday)...

I wonder how many would have ended up having a heart attack whilst reaching for the remote...

 

[oyster]

Interesting Grauniad aticle with some figures but a bit vague on detailed analysis on circumstances leading to increase of deaths

Apart from claiming speed and getting on and off pedelecs was decimating riders. Could the increase of deaths of elderly pedelecers be simply in line with increase of sales of pedelecs on the road...

I agree that it is very questionable. It is, surely, death, injury and damage to property of others that is the primary focus of insurance? If I kill myself by bike, so be it. If I damage my own property, so be it. A slightly more nuanced response to injury - especially if the NHS decides that it is appropriate to pursue charges - in that I might wish to cover myself as well.

 

[Benjahmin]

The energy stored in a 15Kg bike with 80Kg rider moving at 15mph must be COLOSSAL. Enough to possibly dent a car door when it's flung open directly in the path of the bike.

C'mon, who's more likely to suffer the injury here?

 

[anotherkiwi]

What amuses me is the way people in the UK have this imaginary vision of people sitting around in Brussels drawing regulations out of a hat.

The truth is some business sector approached the commission though their lobbyists to have this proposal tabled. The problem is it is very difficult to identify the villain behind this plot because once the project is tabled the faceless bureaucrats are the only ones carrying it, here is a guess:

ICE scooter industry - they now have stats proving that pedelecs are starting to eat them alive "en 2017, pas moins de 254.870 VAE ont trouvé preneur (dont 35.640 VTT à batterie). Soit 90 % de plus qu'en 2016, bien plus que les 107.322 cyclomoteurs vendus et à peine 20.000 unités de moins que les ventes de scooters et de motos cumulées ! " source

Translation: 245,879 pedelecs vs 107,322 mopeds, in France a 90% increase over 2016... 245,879 pedelecs sold vs 259,053 mopeds and motorbikes!!! source for motorbikes

 

[oyster]

The energy stored in a 15Kg bike with 80Kg rider moving at 15mph must be COLOSSAL. Enough to possibly dent a car door when it's flung open directly in the path of the bike.

C'mon, who's more likely to suffer the injury here?

Whilst freely admitting that I do not know the statistics, the losses that need to be covered could be very much greater than the simple kinetic energy of rider and bike imply. For a start, what if you ride directly into the path of a vehicle and their avoidance results in an accident?