E-bike Of The Year

[TorAtle]

Technically it's not road legal in the UK, but the Optibike is by far the best ebike out there.

* High quality components throughout
* Designed as an electric bike from ground up (and it shows)
* Up to 100 mile range with aux battery
* Several motor options, from 400W to 850W.
* Takes advantage of gearing
* Fully damped

It's expensive but if you're a rider there's nothing that compares.

 

[flecc]

Technically it's not road legal in the UK, but the Optibike is by far the best ebike out there.

Unfortunately not only in the UK but the EU as well, the Optibike isn't legal, even in it's lowest power form, hence it getting no mentions to date.

In fact it's illegal in many other parts of the world as well, including in some US states.
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[Mussels]

It's expensive but if you're a rider there's nothing that compares.

A motorbike?

 

[TorAtle]

Unfortunately not only in the UK but the EU as well, the Optibike isn't legal, even in it's lowest power form, hence it getting no mentions to date.

In fact it's illegal in many other parts of the world as well, including in some US states with some powers.
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I've tried to talk them into adding a pedelec mode, but it's not on the cards at this time. I'm in the EU and currently waiting for mine to be shipped. If need be I think I can make it legal.

I've read a couple of other threads in this forum and the Optibike is taking quite a beating! Not sure why, if you look at the top contenders for "bike of the year" we have one that looks like something my grandma would like to pedal and the other one is a cheapish Trek with some addon parts. Clearly we have a long way to go!

 

[Mussels]

I've read a couple of other threads in this forum and the Optibike is taking quite a beating! Not sure why,

Maybe because it's a motorbike and shouldn't pretend otherwise?

OK, that's not a great description but it is very expensive and illegal on European roads. Why should it be compared to bikes that keep within the law?
There are many people on this site who ride motorbikes and have a pedelec because it is primarily a pushbike, the Optibike isn't intended to be pedalled and if I don't want to pedal I'll take my motorbike out and stay on the road. There is next to no hope of you making your Optibike road legal, I know if I spent a lot of money on a high performance machine I wouldn't want to stifle it.

 

[TorAtle]

the Optibike isn't intended to be pedalled

Of course it is, why do you say it isn't? If you met the owners over at the "Tidalforce" or the new "Optibike" google groups I bet you would change your mind!

There is next to no hope of you making your Optibike road legal

I don't think it'll be that hard. In eco-mode the motor is already reduced to 300W. Then it's the matter of cutting the motor if you don't pedal or if the speed exceed 25kph. Anything else??

 

[flecc]

if you look at the top contenders for "bike of the year" we have one that looks like something my grandma would like to pedal and the other one is a cheapish Trek with some addon parts. Clearly we have a long way to go!

It's always a personal view of course, and I don't agree with these assessments. The Agattu is a utility bike, the sort of all rounder that's been popular throughout Europe for very many years. As such, it does a better job of the utility functions than the Optibike could ever do. For example:

1) It has a sensible carrier both to carry loads and attach panniers, unlike the flimsy seatpost attached option on the Optibike.

2) Trailers can be attached in three different ways, the Optibike hopeless for that purpose like all swing rear arm suspension bikes.

3) The step through is ideal for using rear child seats, the Optibike useless for that as well due to an excessive step over height and the rear hopeless for mounting a child seat.

4) The bike part uses universal parts so can be serviced anywhere by owners or dealers.

5) It's also a better road bicycle, see below for the explanation.

6) The so-called "grandma" look is necessary to much of the above, so it's merely sensible design.

Now to the Cytronex:

1) Like all serious road bikes it uses sensible rim brakes, no on-road performance bike ever uses the inferior and vulnerable disc brakes.

2) Like all serious road bikes, it has no pedal power sapping suspension, rear suspension especially being ridiculously inefficient on road bikes.

3) It's intended for those who like real cycling and just want some steep hill assistance on a normal light bike.

It's for all those reasons that the Optibike isn't a good bicycle for any purpose other than a bit of off-road playing about, though not serious competition even there. It's not Kalkhoff and Cytronex who have a long way to go, more a case of Optibike having strayed a long way on the wrong path in a way that's typical in gimmicky US bike design.

Fortunately for the USA, they still have a number of successful riders like Lance Armstrong who do know what a real bike is and ride them in road racing and training.

I know you wont agree with me, but I will never agree with you until you can show me bikes with suspension and disc brakes competing in on road events,thus showing they are efficient. Efficiency is after all paramount in bike design, given the power input limitations.

What the Optibike does is substitute efficiency with brute force powerful motors, hence the justified motorbike jibes. After all, even the Eco mode power of 300 watts is a joke in bad taste, that exceeding the constant power that the fittest cyclists can put in continuously.
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[Cyclezee]

A very well structured and clear opinion of the ridiculous Optibike.
But when Flecc hits those keys, one can expect no less

J hn

 

[TorAtle]

I know a lot of people think electric assist bikes are like cheating, but never did I think I'd hear that argument in an electric bike forum! "Real cycling" and "real bikes", wow!

Up here in Scandinavia road bikes don't sell much, we prefer mountain bikes or at the very least hybrids. Mountain bikes are much more versatile, you can go anywhere with them. Commute to work, too, which I do. But the most enjoyable rides are when I leave the tarmac and cars and the pollution behind and find a quiet gravel road or trail in the forest.

I have been riding a Kona Kula with a 250W BionX kit since this summer. Lack of range, motor drag and the fact that the motor does not take advantage of gearing are my main complaints. All this will be adressed when I get my "ridiculous" Optibike.

Ride on

Tor Atle

Edit: Btw, the Optibike is very efficient. 85-90% or thereabout with a cadence of 60-90.

 

[Burnsey]

For me its the Pro Connect, I've had it 5 months and done 1300 miles to and from work and its a pleasure to ride (bar the odd pothole!). It laughs at hills and for the moment I can't fault it.

 

[flecc]

Edit: Btw, the Optibike is very efficient. 85-90% or thereabout with a cadence of 60-90.

I can understand the difference in choice for off road, trails etc, and in fact I know I could have a whole load of fun with an Optibike off road, especially the most powerful one.

However, many of us like the purity of normal cycling but for various reasons including advancing age or minor disability just need help on hills or against strong headwinds. For that the legally powered e-bikes are adequate and the fact they can be very light and efficient doesn't spoil the cycling experience.

The efficiency figure you give for the Optibike is only for a stable state. In the circumstances where suspension absorbs and wastes power the efficiency collapses. Of course on a powerful e-bike like the Optibike that doesn't matter since very high rider input thrusts aren't necessary, but that takes us back into the motorbike scenario of the motor contribution being very high, as opposed to pure cycling with only the minimum of added motor power.
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[flecc]

I know a lot of people think electric assist bikes are like cheating, but never did I think I'd hear that argument in an electric bike forum! "Real cycling" and "real bikes", wow!

I thought I'd deal with this "real bikes" issue separately.

When electric assistance was first created for bikes unregistered as motor vehicles, in England incidentally, the authorities acted swiftly to ensure that they remained purely as bicycles by limiting the power that could be used. the maximum speed of power assistance, and the maximum weight, the EU later doing the same. Later many other countries and states did the same with individual legislation.

Therefore "real bikes" are what they still are and also what they should all be in law and "cheating" doesn't come into it. They are merely real bicycles with some power assistance.

Inevitably there have been those who are not satisfied with this and want faster and more powerful designs, but those are not bicycles, in operation, in reality and often in law, being in fact low powered mopeds or motorbikes which should be registered as such. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that and I'm happy for those who prefer that choice, but they should accept that their vehicles are no longer bicycles. Nor should they be compared with bicycles just because they use bicycle parts or parts with some similarity to bicycles.

This forum is primarily for electric assist bicycles so the terms "real bicycle" and "real cycling" are entirely appropriate.
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[TorAtle]

Nor should they be compared with bicycles just because they use bicycle parts or parts with some similarity to bicycles.

I'd like to remind you of the 1995 Trek Y-series:
Trek Y Series Mountain Bike

Looks very much like an Optibike, doesn't it. And as I've already said, in eco-mode it's just a hair more powerful than what's legal in the EU. Find a way to max out the throttle at 83% and you're there. Just because it doesn't look like the bicycles you find pretty or are used to doesn't mean it's a moped.

 

[flecc]

I'd like to remind you of the 1995 Trek Y-series:
Trek Y Series Mountain Bike

Looks very much like an Optibike, doesn't it. And as I've already said, in eco-mode it's just a hair more powerful than what's legal in the EU. Find a way to max out the throttle at 83% and you're there. Just because it doesn't look like the bicycles you find pretty or are used to doesn't mean it's a moped.

I'm not sure what relevance that Trek has since I hadn't mentioned it, but it's an off road design and isn't efficient on road.

Of course you can use the Optibike in it's lowest power form in Eco mode and also modify it to restrict it's output, but for road use what's the point when you can use legal e-bikes that are better for that. I haven't mentioned the looks as the reason it's a moped. It was still designed in a form illegal in Sweden and therefore should be registered as a moped.

I've already acknowledged that the Optibike can make sense for off-road use, but why try to make it legal when off road there is no law applicable? I assume because you want to use it in both ways, on and off road, and my contention remains that it's not a good on-road bike for the reasons stated. Like most thing made to do two different jobs, it falls short on at least one of them.
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[TorAtle]

Of course you can use the Optibike in it's lowest power form in Eco mode and also modify it to restrict it's output, but for road use what's the point when you can use legal e-bikes that are better for that.

There are no better ebikes! No ebike is faster, more torquey, is more efficient, has longer range, is more comfortable, is more stable (low CoG) or has the stopping power of the Optibike. If you don't like the rear shock I bet you can buy one with a lock-out. And btw, you can tow a trailer behind one, there's at least one owner who does that.

Those are pretty important factors for me. I don't really mind if you disagree.

 

[flecc]

I couldn't resist commenting for fun.

There are no better ebikes! Opinion

No ebike is faster, Because it's illegal and moped powered.

more torquey, Because it's illegal and moped powered

is more efficient, Not true as I've observed, many more efficient.

has longer range, With the same rider, I think the Wisper 905se can beat it

is more comfortable, Because of the soggy suspension

is more stable (low CoG) Not true, the Panasonic powered bikes have lower CoG.

or has the stopping power of the Optibike. Not true, that's why race bikes use calipers or V brakes and never discs. The rim is the largest disc, so the most powerful.

If you don't like the rear shock I bet you can buy one with a lock-out. Why would I want to pay for something I don't want or need?

And btw, you can tow a trailer behind one, there's at least one owner who does that. I haven't said you can't, but it has very real deficiencies in that respect which I'm sure you could work out for yourself

Those are pretty important factors for me. Some imaginary though.

But seriously, although criticising the bike, I'm not criticising your choice since it's entirely valid for you, and I hope you have loads of enjoyment from your new Optibike just as we do with our sound choices of other designs.
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[wotwozere]

Hi Burnsey

1300 miles a great achievment I am approaching 1000 fast, I got some fat suspension so less bumpy on potholes.

thx

Bob

 

[Blew it]

Aye aye!...somebody's been on the "aspirin" again

 

[Tiberius]

is more stable (low CoG) Not true, the Panasonic powered bikes have lower CoG.

flecc, TorAtle,

Allow me to jump in here please, before the discussion goes off the rails .

I don't know where this idea of low CoG being good comes from, but its wrong. A low CoG may be more convenient when you are standing next to the bike and manhandling it, or even when pushing it home after a hard days off road riding. But when riding a bike (or moped or motorcycle) a low CoG is the last thing you want - it actually makes the handling worse.

You might also like to discuss the choice of colours available.

Nick

PS. I'm not voting for or against it, just trying to correct a technical point.

 

[Mussels]

flecc, TorAtle,

Allow me to jump in here please, before the discussion goes off the rails .

I don't know where this idea of low CoG being good comes from, but its wrong. A low CoG may be more convenient when you are standing next to the bike and manhandling it, or even when pushing it home after a hard days off road riding. But when riding a bike (or moped or motorcycle) a low CoG is the last thing you want - it actually makes the handling worse.

You might also like to discuss the choice of colours available.

Nick

PS. I'm not voting for or against it, just trying to correct a technical point.

Not quite true, a low centre of gravity in a motorbike improves handling and makes the bike more agile. That's not the end of it as geometry plays a large part as well, which in a motorbike is quite different.
In a relatively light ebike most of the weight is the rider and as a result the CoG is up high, lowering the battery by 6 inches really won't make much difference. A much better way of lowering the CoG is to lose weight.
TorAtle either works for or with Optibike as his posts look like adverts or he has spent a lot of money on his new toy and won't hear anything bad said about it. I hope it's the latter and he enjoys riding it.

Edit: The Optibike UK site claims 75% efficience so I have no idea where his figures come from. The UK site only sells the 800W version and reckons you can get on on the cycle to work scheme. It quotes figures for a £300 bike and says 50% saving but doesn't quote the savings for the £6,500 Optibike it's selling. For that money I'd rather have a Vetrix and have some proper speed and range.