e-Bike of the Year 2011

[banbury frank]

Hi eddieo

Nothing wrong with a ford after all they made the model T the first production car

Bringing the cost off cars to the masses

The same with E bikes If it gets you from a to b reliably then it is the bike for you

Frank

 

[flecc]

Yes, Ford make great cars, don't like their electric bike though.

 

[eddieo]

Of course Ford make good cars and Tonero have found their nieche.......But to quote someone else "get real"

 

[flecc]

Of course Ford make good cars.......But to quote someone else "get real"

I'd need to get real, lots and lots and lots to buy a Ford with them.

1 Brazilian real = 0.348781133 British pounds
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[tillson]

Many factors can make a bike, "the best one for 2011". It doesn't necessarily have to be the bike that has introduced the most ground breaking technology onto the market, the one which represents the best value for money, or the most attractive looking bike. All of these factors and many other besides, will carry varying levels of significance for people and influence what they vote for. The result of the poll is therefore likely to hold an element of surprise for some people and the outcome may not be what they were expecting to see. But this doesn't make the poll invalid, distorted or any less credible, it is just a reflection of how the people on this forum view the current crop of eBikes when considered in the context of this very limited poll.

This is why, rightly or wrongly, I removed the cost element in the second poll. I know that it is only one of many factors, but it is probably the most important one for a majority of people and I thought it may be interesting to see how the two polls differ when people are given a free reign with their budget. Again, very limited but there may be some commonality between the two polls which may give a further pointer in the direction of the best bike of 2011.

 

[eTim]

This is why, rightly or wrongly, I removed the cost element in the second poll. I know that it is only one of many factors, but it is probably the most important one for a majority of people and I thought it may be interesting to see how the two polls differ when people are given a free reign with their budget. Again, very limited but there may be some commonality between the two polls which may give a further pointer in the direction of the best bike of 2011.

Except that the 2nd poll is based on the nominations of the first poll which makes the bikes being voted on in the 2nd poll not representative of money no object type bikes!

 

[tillson]

Except that the 2nd poll is based on the nominations of the first poll which makes the bikes being voted on in the 2nd poll not representative of money no object type bikes!

I want to see how people's opinion of the nominated bikes changes once the money factor is removed. For example, if a person votes for modestly priced bike X in the first poll and then sticks with bike X in the limitless budget poll, then that will be a very strong indication of that person's commitment to that particular model. If they are tempted away from modestly priced bike X and towards bling-bike Y, then their commitment to X is a little more superficial.

I know it isn't perfect, but I wanted to try and establish some correlation between the two polls so that the strength of people's opinion can be measured when tempted away from their original choice by a limitless budget. The list had to be the same to do this. To some extent it has worked as the Stork bike becomes more popular in the second poll. The Tonaro and Haibike seem to be doing well in both polls, so perhaps these two are the true leading contenders.

I stuck with the same mid range bike in both polls, so this indicates that I firmly believe that the bike I have voted for is truly the best one of 2011. Those chasing the bling in the second poll may not be so confident with their choice.

 

[flecc]

Those chasing the bling in the second poll may not be so confident with their choice.

I think most will be supremely confident - - - - - - - - in the knowledge they can't afford their choice so risk no disappointment!

 

[indalo]

What seems to happen on here is increasingly more insidious and a distortion. On one hand all is described as "a bit of fun", in its self pointless if it does not represent anything meaningful. Surely these sort of debates must stand for something if the forum is to be taken seriously...

Every time a poll or something like it appears out come the totally over the top and emotional gang of supporters of that bike (of name I can not speak) which ends up distorting a decent poll and turning things into a bit of a circus......

I drive a Ford, I know a BMW is better, but I dont go screaming down the street waving arms in the air shouting that my Ford is the better car!

Eddie, I said previously I'd find it embarrassing to be identified as a member of Pedelecs were, for example, the Gadget Show to interview someone to discuss the news, (God forbid!) that we had voted for a near 30Kg, old-technology bike (and an ugly one to boot) as our ebike of the year. This, remember, in the light of Bosch entering the field in 2011 with a new crank-drive system taken up by a host of brands and universally praised by all who have tested or reviewed it.

Those who see ebikers as a little odd would just feel vindicated in holding that view and they'd probably guess that we had all gone over the edge if someone showed them a Haibike alongside the Tonaro.

I read the attempts to explain or rationalise the choice of a Tonaro but frankly, I find the reasoning of its defenders quite pathetic. Sure, it's a free country and people can vote for whoever or whatever they like and I defend that right absolutely but when we have members actively encouraging others to vote for a particular bike and making these pages look like spam central, then we all lose credibility.

In my view, Pedelecs should be seen as a responsible body of dedicated ebikers. These polls spoil any notion of that.

I don't know Eddie and I can't explain it; maybe it's a northern thing?

Indalo

 

[eddieo]

Eddie, I said previously I'd find it embarrassing to be identified as a member of Pedelecs were, for example, the Gadget Show to interview someone to discuss the news, (God forbid!) that we had voted for a near 30Kg, old-technology bike (and an ugly one to boot) as our ebike of the year.
Indalo

Dear boy......You are far to kind!

 

[funkylyn]

Nothing like a good discussion to cheer me up, even more, on a nice warm sunny morning........

Just come back from an exhilarating ride on my 25 kilo, ever so pretty Tonaro Esprit and, guess what, she did everything that I wanted her to.....she got me up these mountain roads like a Spanish Ibex.......which is why I bought her.....and why I vote for her..... with her modified updated technology, yummy hub gears etc, she does the job I want her to do........

My kids used to say I embarrassed them in their teens (dont we all )....its very reassuring to find I havent lost my touch

Must be a 'northern' Geordie thing......god....I am SO proud to be a Geordie.....
I have to say though, I have always preferred " slightly eccentric " to 'odd'.....

BTW Indalo......this Haibike......how many miles have you ridden on it ??.....over what sort of terrain.....just roads or forest type tracks as well ? ......what makes you, personally,really like it ?......is it comfortable to ride ?......I look forward to trying one next year......do they do a nice ''girly'' version ??

Responsible and dedicated e-biker Lynda.......in "Jamon Serrano" central ...

 

[Cyclezee]

One thing you don't get with a Tonaro is the 'Bosch Wall' i.e. power cutting out abruptly when you hit 25 km/h as if you had hit the brakes.

 

[eddieo]

One thing you don't get with a Tonaro is the 'Bosch Wall' i.e. power cutting out abruptly when you hit 25 km/h as if you had hit the brakes.

whilst readings hundreds of posts over on German forum I have not once heard anyone mention this "Bosch wall" except you. Its pretty easy to cycle past the cut out and hardly noticable...

 

[Eaglerider]

One thing you don't get with a Tonaro is the 'Bosch Wall' i.e. power cutting out abruptly when you hit 25 km/h as if you had hit the brakes.

When I tried the Bosch system I found the 'Brick Wall' very noticeable which greatly compromised the bikes cruising abilities as at 16 mph you are on your own with no help at all. It was the same with the Panasonic system, in the cruise at around the 15 mph mark its like being pulled by a slack tow-rope, every now and then you get a quick snatch as the tow rope tightens, then goes slack with no thrust until the speed drops back again.

I found this to be a major drawback, and would prevent me buying one unless it was a mountain bike that I planned to ride up steep hills all day (where the crank drives are very good, at low speed). But for everything else I much prefer my Eagle. Faster, much less effort required, greater range by some margin, and a good deal less expensive to boot.

I think the crank drive systems offer huge promise, but their apparent emasculation by the regulations, and the high cost of the units together with their astronomical battery prices renders these systems a bit of a damp squib to my mind.

 

[flecc]

Owners insist the "Bosch wall" isn't there. It appears from comments on this that the impression comes from the fact that the power is sustained to nearer to 15 mph than we've been used to on the Panasonic unit previously, those sloping off the power very early.

However, it could be instructive for anyone used to the earlier Panasonic units to try a 2011 bike, since they too have power maintained to almost 15 mph. The new for 2012 36 volt version may be even more like the Bosch.

Re: the Haibike versus the Tonaro, the Haibike Xduro is simply a far better fundamental design. The frame structure is fully functional and free of gimmicks. The rear suspension is correctly designed for bicycle use, and the motor is mounted correctly for it's intended application range.

The nearest equivalent Tonaro model, the Bighit, falls down on each of those points. Of course it does the job of carrying someone around on their journeys and has the benefit of drive through the gears, but it simply is not in the same league as that Haibike. Of course I wouldn't expect it to be entirely so at the price difference, but most of the points I raised cost no more money.
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[Eaglerider]

Owners insist the "Bosch wall" isn't there. It appears from comments on this that the impression comes from the fact that the power is sustained to nearer to 15 mph than we've been used to on the Panasonic unit previously, those sloping off the power very early.

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I guess if they have not experienced anything else, they might not notice any Brick Wall, but I spotted the issue within 30 seconds of riding, but probably because I had become accustomed to a hub drive.

If I had to go crank drive I would prefer the Bosch, as the Panasonic (probably an earlier one) was really quite weedy reducing power almost immediately after setting off, and always found some excuse to cut the power. It does seem remarkable that whilst the quality of manufacture of the Japanese crank drives is second to none, a cheap old Bafang 250 watt jobby actually fits the task much better and wins me over every time.
But then I'm an old git anyway.

 

[flecc]

a cheap old Bafang 250 watt jobby actually fits the task much better and wins me over every time.

If the territory is right that's undoubtedly true, it's a point I've made many times. Crank drive only really comes into it's own when the hill/rider combination is not possible with a given hub motor. Put another way, in about two thirds of Britain I wouldn't consider a crank drive, but there are parts of the remaining areas where I'd find one essential.

Of course crucial in this is the rider capability, which is why no-one can judge which system is right for anyone else, only the individual knows that.

 

[yselmike]

The cut of is the reason I got my Flyer S all the bikes made in the Netherlands have the 25kph cut of.
I cruise at about 34-35 kph with some wind in my back over 40 plenty fast enough for me.
Though sunday night was scary the roads were like a mirror so a relaxed ride at 20kph no effort required.
though did slide back down a humpback bike bridge.casualty was busy the next morning.

 

[eddieo]

I guess if they have not experienced anything else, they might not notice any Brick Wall, but I spotted the issue within 30 seconds of riding, but probably because I had become accustomed to a hub drive.
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I have both so feel my opinion valid, a 23 mph DaaHub and the KTM Bosch (being replaced with a stepthrough Bosch) I enjoyed riding both, but kinda preferred the bionic nature and no/low noise of the crank drive for everyday riding. with a crank drive you fell that you are riding a bike not a moped and it is far more satisfying IMO

 

[flecc]

I have both so feel my opinion valid, a 23 mph DaaHub and the KTM Bosch (being replaced with a stepthrough Bosch) I enjoyed riding both, but kinda preferred the bionic nature and no/low noise of the crank drive for everyday riding. with a crank drive you fell that you are riding a bike not a moped and it is far more satisfying IMO

As long term owner of both types, I agree on this Eddie. My crank drive Lafree and the Kalkhoffs tried have always felt more bicycle-like. Hub motor bikes can feel more moped-like, even more so when throttle controlled and especially with the most powerful motors.

Some crank drives can also be moped-like though, the old Yamaha PAS types were an example of that.