E-Bike Of The Year 2009?

[flecc]

the Bike Tec X Serie would probably be the most expensive choice. However, I can't find a price or availability for it anywhere, so maybe it should not be included. If that is the case, the most expensive would be the Kalkhoff Pro Connect S at £2,595,

The XT tandem is Uk listed at over £4000, and well over that with the Rohloff hub. The dearest listed solo BikeTec is the K-series with Rohloff hub at £4695 last published price, but probably more now.

Finally, was the poll worthwhile and should it be continued in 2010?

Yes I think so. Like Presteigne, many don't know about it or take part, but there is still huge hidden interest in the outcomes. The masses still need something to be apathetic about, so the demand is out there.
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[Barnowl]

I thought it was quite interesting and that the results were not unreasonable.

Let's face it the forum has a tendency to get less than rivetting at times.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Road Legal

As for bikes being road legal, how many e-bikes are strictly legal in the eyes of the law? Answer, hardly any

J hn

Hi John

Yes of course I was delighted to be voted joint first place along side the illustrious Pro Connect S especially as I say because the Wisper is restricted and legal in the UK.

At Wisper we are taking the legal status of electric bikes very seriously in 2010 and along with BEBA will be trying to persuade other manufacturers and importers to do the same.

Whilst the ebike market was in it's infancy it was fun to sell bikes that were not built to the letter of the law. However I now think it is time for the professionals in the market (including of course 50 Cycles) to take a more responsible and mature view.

We all know it is but a matter of time until we see the first serious accident on an electric bike.

If the bike was not sold as a legal model I believe the retailer and importer will be in serious trouble.

If the rider is responsible for the accident, causes injury and the bike is found to be outside the law the ramifications for the rider will be immense including penalties for riding a moped without tax, insurance and MOT. Attracting the possibility of huge fines and even a driving ban.

As far as the industry is concerned we need to be seen to be working within EN and UK recommendations or we are likely to see the special arrangement from which we all benefit taken from us and all electric bikes considered mopeds.

All the best

David

 

[uk_steve]

good to see my bike was voted high


shame i never voted but it would of been (Wisper 905se Sport)

 

[Django]

Hi David,

Does the first quotation below indicate a change since the second quotation which you wrote in August?

Hi John

Yes of course I was delighted to be voted joint first place along side the illustrious Pro Connect S especially as I say because the Wisper is restricted and legal in the UK.

At Wisper we are taking the legal status of electric bikes very seriously in 2010 and along with BEBA will be trying to persuade other manufacturers and importers to do the same.

Whilst the ebike market was in it's infancy it was fun to sell bikes that were not built to the letter of the law. However I now think it is time for the professionals in the market (including of course 50 Cycles) to take a more responsible and mature view.

We all know it is but a matter of time until we see the first serious accident on an electric bike.

If the bike was not sold as a legal model I believe the retailer and importer will be in serious trouble.

If the rider is responsible for the accident, causes injury and the bike is found to be outside the law the ramifications for the rider will be immense including penalties for riding a moped without tax, insurance and MOT. Attracting the possibility of huge fines and even a driving ban.

As far as the industry is concerned we need to be seen to be working within EN and UK recommendations or we are likely to see the special arrangement from which we all benefit taken from us and all electric bikes considered mopeds.

All the best

David

The 500W Wisper is available on order only and has a 12 week wait as strictly speaking it is illegal, although others seem to be getting away with it under the new regulations.

Here is a sneak preview;

View attachment 869

Best regards David

There is also the issue of the 'off road' button which you know is used on the roads by many, if not most.

I have noted and very much appreciated your efforts on the legal side. This enquiry comes purely from a genuine interest in you elaborating upon your views. Does you taking the legal status very seriously in 2010 mean that I will not be able to buy a 500W Wisper from you, or does the near impossibility of accurately measuring motor output still make this possible. Likewise, is your 'off road' button set to disappear?

 

[HarryB]

..., is your 'off road' button set to disappear?

I know from a previous thread that David has said the off road button is set to disappear on all the new Wisper ebikes and that they will all comply with the law. They will achieve the legal maximum speed of 15.5mph (and the law allows + or - 10% of course).

 

[Barnowl]

I know from a previous thread that David has said the off road button is set to disappear on all the new Wisper ebikes and that they will all comply with the law. They will achieve the legal maximum speed of 15.5mph (and the law allows + or - 10% of course).

That's interesting. Does that mean that power assist to 17MPH could be legal?

 

[HarryB]

To clarify here are the quotes from a couple of previous threads.

Hi Harry

None of our bikes have off road switches any more now we comply to the new EN15194 regulations. However for those who will not be using the bikes on the road, an off road switch is available FOC for retro fitting.

Best regards David

Bikes that travel faster than 17/18mph (the EN regs leave us a 10% deviation either side of 15.5mph) ...

 

[Django]

Thanks Harry. I totally understand the sense in this, though as one who remembers teenage years tuning my Yamaha FS1SE 'moped' until it cracked 70mph, the thought of e-bikes going the way of motorbikes with tight controls from all angles does leave me a little sad.

 

[flecc]

Very many e-bikes like my Quando based one do not have any restriction, their speed is only limited by motor's maximum on the battery voltage so it varies from about 17 mph when fully charged down to 14.5 when nearly empty. In the past when the laws were first written, this form of limiting was even more common, so no doubt the laws were written with tolerance to allow for this variation.

In practice unrestricted e-bikes which were originally designed for and sold with NiMh batteries tend to exceed the outer limit by an extra half mph when fully charged fresh off a charger due to their initial higher voltage.
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[rog_london]

Thanks Harry. I totally understand the sense in this, though as one who remembers teenage years tuning my Yamaha FS1SE 'moped' until it cracked 70mph, the thought of e-bikes going the way of motorbikes with tight controls from all angles does leave me a little sad.

You*got*70*out*of*a*Fizzie?*Good*gracious*me....

I'm*not*sure*where*those*asterisks*have*come*from*-*perhaps*because*I'm*posting*from*Firefox/Linux....

Rog.

 

[HarryB]

You*got*70*out*of*a*Fizzie?*Good*gracious*me....

I'm*not*sure*where*those*asterisks*have*come*from*-*perhaps*because*I'm*posting*from*Firefox/Linux....

Rog.

me too but no asterisks.

 

[Dynamic Position]

I think there should be a Best E-bike in the snow & cold category.

With the forecast for the snow to continue for another two weeks and temperatures in some parts hitting -16 degrees Celcius it is probably quicker and safer walking. I've cycled in snow before but the conditions are just too bad to take a chance.

 

[Django]

You*got*70*out*of*a*Fizzie?*Good*gracious*me....

I'm*not*sure*where*those*asterisks*have*come*from*-*perhaps*because*I'm*posting*from*Firefox/Linux....

Rog.

The major cheat was a 75cc big bore kit, along with Boyesen reeds and a Micron exhaust. Genuine top speed was probably closer to 60mph; down a hill and with a following wind it was possible to see 70mph on the speedo.

 

[Mussels]

I think there should be a Best E-bike in the snow & cold category.

With the forecast for the snow to continue for another two weeks and temperatures in some parts hitting -16 degrees Celcius it is probably quicker and safer walking. I've cycled in snow before but the conditions are just too bad to take a chance.

I find I can ride places where it's too icy to walk and I quite enjoy riding through snow.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Legal

Hi David,

Does the first quotation below indicate a change since the second quotation which you wrote in August?

There is also the issue of the 'off road' button which you know is used on the roads by many, if not most.

I have noted and very much appreciated your efforts on the legal side. This inquiry comes purely from a genuine interest in you elaborating upon your views. Does you taking the legal status very seriously in 2010 mean that I will not be able to buy a 500W Wisper from you, or does the near impossibility of accurately measuring motor output still make this possible. Likewise, is your 'off road' button set to disappear?

Hi Django

Thanks for your question, it really helps to make my position absolutely clear.

Last year I did make a decision to bring in 500W Wispers marked 250W, this poor decision was bought about after reading a post here that was comparing a Wisper to a bike produced by another company that does just this. The problem is that due to some poor wording in the EN documentation anyone is able to flout the guidelines and knowingly import large motors under a 250W badge.

In retrospect it was a childish stance on my behalf and we have since re considered. Through BEBA we have had discussions with the other company involved and they too have decided to work within the law and are now discontinuing using this particular motor after stocks have run out.

Through BEBA and ETRA we have asked the EU to consider letting us use 500W motors as we believe they are safer and more useful than the current 250W. However we have agreed to retain the 15.5mph speed limit. We await their decision.

Regarding the off road button, it actually disappeared from all Wisper bikes last year. However we have been offering free off road buttons for retro fitting by our customers as a second stage of removing them all together, this will come to an end soon. There will still be a way of de-restricting Wisper bikes in the future but this work must be carried out by a dealer or the Warranty is void. The reason we are retaining this facility is for security guards and the like to have a little more power, these bikes will only be approved for use on private land.

I absolutly believe that we all need to be a little more sensible if we are to retain the special position within EU law that the electric bicycle currently enjoys. It is important to remember that the ICE motor bike lobby is very strong and hates ebikes. WE have not heard much from them in the UK yet but I believe they are simply biding their time until an accident occurs. If at that time we as an industry are seen to be working to the spirit of the regulations rather than to the word we will be in a far stronger position to fight opposition.

All the best

David

 

[Django]

Hi David,

Thank you for your typically honest and clear reply. I fully understand your position.

Might you be able to elaborate upon your view that the ICE motorcycle lobby hates e-bikes. I am a very keen motorcyclist and would be happy to become involved in countering such views.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Internal Combustion Engine Bike Lobby

Hi David,

Thank you for your typically honest and clear reply. I fully understand your position.

Might you be able to elaborate upon your view that the ICE motorcycle lobby hates e-bikes. I am a very keen motorcyclist and would be happy to become involved in countering such views.

Hi Django

This view was sold to me by ETRA who have mentioned the ICE moped and motorcycle lobby is strongly against electric bikes' special dispensation allowing their use without Tax MOT Insurance etc. The throttle on Electric Bikes is a casualty of the ICE lobby arguing that the electric bike is more like a conventional motor bike than a bicycle as the rider does not need to pedal to gain motion. ETRA argued that in which case electric postal carts must also be motor bikes. The EU pointed out that these were limited to 6kph or walking speed. The compromise was the electric bicycle would be allowed travel at up to 6kph under throttle only, the throttle can still be used over 6kph but the pedals of the bike must be turning (even if they are not adding any energy to the propulsion of the bike ). That brilliant bit of legislation probably only cost us all €5 or €10 million!

All the best

David

 

[Mussels]

the ICE moped and motorcycle lobby

What's this? I've never heard of them and Google just shows a couple of references by MAG to the Institute of Consumer Ergonomics, it's a research company that has done studies on PTWs but no lobbying.

I'm wondering if the objections come from a group representing motcycle riders or motorcycle manufacturers, I can't see riders objecting.

 

[flecc]

I think David's ICE is just referring to Internal Combustion Engine in this instance.

I agree Mussels, it does seem unlikely that m/c riders in general have any view on e-bikes, positive or negative,
and many of us in e-biking are either ex or current motorcyclists.

I would have thought it likely to be m/c manufacturers and importers wanting to protect their market against
possible incursions into their sales from bureaucracy free electrics of any kind. They do after all suffer most
from legal impositions, such as CBT, compulsory helmets, parking restrictions and various rider age limits on
power, so would tend to be resentful of anyone else suffering very little such interference while taking some
of their market.
.