DVSA take companies to Court for selling illegal bikes.

[Zlatan]

Court fines Hereford man for riding electric bike without licence

A HEREFORD electric bike rider has been fined by magistrates for riding without insurance or a licence.

www.herefordtimes.com

About time.... Again. Suspect this may be beginning of an avalanche of prosecutions. Its not hard to find or spot transgressors,some even advertise and boast on here..Its easy goody points for new recruits.
Suspect there will be a glut of dongles soon on ebay...

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

The faster a cyclist rides on the road then the harder it is for drivers to overtake and then they start taking risks (we all know the driving mentality and it is simple 'must get in front, don't want to be held up'). In most cases it is far easier for vehicles to pass more safely for the cyclist if the cyclist is riding at sub 15/16 mph.

This happens to me all the time while I'm riding my restricted legal pedelec. Traffic islands are very frequent on too narrow roads, and cars are keen to get in front no mater how slow you're going and no matter what is coming up. I could be reporting drivers quite regularly. This time it was a lorry approaching from the other direction.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

Court fines Hereford man for riding electric bike without licence

A HEREFORD electric bike rider has been fined by magistrates for riding without insurance or a licence.

www.herefordtimes.com

About time.... Again. Suspect this may be beginning of an avalanche of prosecutions. Its not hard to find or spot transgressors,some even advertise and boast on here..Its easy goody points for new recruits.
Suspect there will be a glut of dongles soon on ebay...

The Moovway is 350W and doesn't even have pedals. He should have been arrested for looking too silly in a public place. Why don't they go after Amazon?

MoovWay Folding Electric Balance Bike, 12-Inch Wheels, 350 W – Black : Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Outdoors

Shop MoovWay Folding Electric Balance Bike, 12-Inch Wheels, 350 W – Black. Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I hope this mad fat fook on a stealth bomber gets arrested. Wasn't pedalling at all and despite that he was comfortably keeping up with cars

 

[Nealh]

Court fines Hereford man for riding electric bike without licence

A HEREFORD electric bike rider has been fined by magistrates for riding without insurance or a licence.

www.herefordtimes.com

About time.... Again. Suspect this may be beginning of an avalanche of prosecutions. Its not hard to find or spot transgressors,some even advertise and boast on here..Its easy goody points for new recruits.
Suspect there will be a glut of dongles soon on ebay...

It should set a presidence and would like to think more would follow, an obvious one would be users of DD motors which are quite obvious to see but I suspect as long as they are pedalling at a legal pedelec speed they will be ok.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

It should set a presidence and would like to think more would follow, an obvious one would be users of DD motors which are quite obvious to see but I suspect as long as they are pedalling at a legal pedelec speed they will be ok.

When having to make decisions quickly while viewing a possible illegal ebike, Police probably boil down all the legal definitions of a pedelec to "Is he pedalling? No? Stop him and question!" or "Allo allo allo, is he pedalling and proceeding along the road or pavement too quickly?" ... just as it's quicker for bus drivers are look for the special short word of the day printed on the ticket in large capitals, than it is stopping and squinting for somewhat longer looking for the date, or "Shoot to kill!" if soldiers encounter someone carrying a gun.

 

[MontyPAS]

This happens to me all the time while I'm riding my restricted legal pedelec. Traffic islands are very frequent on too narrow roads, and cars are keen to get in front no mater how slow you're going and no matter what is coming up. I could be reporting drivers quite regularly. This time it was a lorry approaching from the other direction.

Doubt that cycle lamp meets BS / legal either?

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

Doubt that cycle lamp meets BS / legal either?

It's this one, makes me far more visible on the roads at night. I particularly like that drivers mistake me for a approaching motorbike at intersections, and wait for me to pedal past. I keep it angled down towards the road, where it lights up potholes etc. very clearly. During the day I have it on strobe. Lately I've taken to activating strobe at night while going around roundabouts, far fewer drivers miss seeing my bike now. Keeps me safe, so I'm keeping it.

1800LM 6 LED MTB Bicycle Motorcycle Light Bike Front Headlight DC 12V-80V AY | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1800LM 6 LED MTB Bicycle Motorcycle Light Bike Front Headlight DC 12V-80V AY at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[MontyPAS]

It's this one, makes me far more visible on the roads at night. I particularly like that drivers mistake me for a approaching motorbike at intersections, and wait for me to pedal past. I keep it angled down towards the road, where it lights up potholes etc. very clearly. During the day I have it on strobe. Lately I've taken to activating strobe at night while going around roundabouts, far fewer drivers miss seeing my bike now. Keeps me safe, so I'm keeping it.

1800LM 6 LED MTB Bicycle Motorcycle Light Bike Front Headlight DC 12V-80V AY | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1800LM 6 LED MTB Bicycle Motorcycle Light Bike Front Headlight DC 12V-80V AY at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Flashing strobe. So illegal then? Just like above 250w motors?

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

Flashing strobe. So illegal then? Just like above 250w motors?

No.

The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005

These Regulations further amend The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (S.I. 1989/1796) (“the 1989 Regulations”) which contain provisions for the construction, maintenance and use of lighting systems on vehicles.

www.legislation.gov.uk

The regulations state that, if you choose to use flashing lights, they must flash at a frequency between 1-4hz, which is between one and four flashes per second.

 

[MontyPAS]

No.

The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005

These Regulations further amend The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (S.I. 1989/1796) (“the 1989 Regulations”) which contain provisions for the construction, maintenance and use of lighting systems on vehicles.

www.legislation.gov.uk

they must flash at a frequency between 1-4hz, which is between one and four flashes per second.

So not a strobe then?

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

So not a strobe then?

strobe noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of strobe noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

 

[MontyPAS]

O

strobe noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of strobe noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

One up to you then

 

[WheezyRider]

I think the problem is that a small amount of power like 250W is completely adequate in some situations, while in other situations it is completely inadequate and any regulation has to be flexible enough to accommodate this.

So an average person on the flat with no wind on an average bike could reach 20 mph using 250W. However, add a headwind or a hill, a person who is heavy, carrying a load or who is unable to pedal hard and 250W would barely be enough to propel the bike along at more than walking pace - and in the process the motor would probably get very hot and suffer damage. Hence there is the need for a pedelec motor to be able to output far more than 250W for certain periods of time.

I would like to see the rules on throttles relaxed and the 14year minimum age limit removed, but otherwise I think things work just fine.

In most cases, police just have to enforce the existing rules and all will be well. It's quite clear most of the time when someone has an oversized motor on their bike. The current rules say the motor must be labelled, which the police should be able to read and act on.

 

[Nealh]

250w should be enough for most reasonable fit people to manage 7 - 10mph on inclines (not silly steep testing ones, but mediocre ones a reasonable person may be expected to ride up).
Unfit people or those with issues would generally not attempt to ride unsuitable terrain and a pedelec shouldn't be a substitute for a moped style bike.

 

[WheezyRider]

250w should be enough for most reasonable fit people to manage 7 - 10mph on inclines (not silly steep testing ones, but mediocre ones a reasonable person may be expected to ride up).
Unfit people or those with issues would generally not attempt to ride unsuitable terrain and a pedelec shouldn't be a substitute for a moped style bike.

Hmmm, I think we have to think about people who aren't so fit or have disabilities. There are a lot of people of reduced mobility who use bikes as a mobility aid. I don't think it's fair to tell them "you're not as fit as a normal rider, so you've got to get off and walk up hills"- when walking any distance might be quite tricky for them. Also, people who can get up hills get tired over longer journeys, why should they be restricted to short trips? What about windy days? "Sorry, you can only cycle on calm days..."

In terms of what 250W gets you on a constant incline:

P = mgv Sin a

P is power, m is mass, g is acceleration due to gravity, v is average speed and a is the angle of incline.

Then rearrange:

v = P/mg Sin a

For a 150 kg rider, bike, cargo combo on a 10% incline (a= approx 5.7 degrees) this gives a v of only 1.667 m/s, so a little under 4 mph, ie about walking pace. This excludes other loses such as rolling resistance and air resistance.

A 10% hill is not that steep and what about riding into the wind? I had a look at an online calculator and trying to cycle into a 20 mph headwind using 250W max would only allow you about 8 mph for an upright rider. Add an incline and this drops off even more.

A major point of pedelecs is to help people who would like to cycle but struggle with a standard bike to get out and get mobile again. If they are completely robbed of power, they will only be of use to people who already have a good general health.

In terms of human power output, 250 W is quite a bit for most people to output continually (most healthy people can maintain up to 200W for long periods), but healthy individuals who are not athletic can output 500W or more for short periods of time. So having a 250W "rated" motor that can output up to 600W peak is quite similar to normal human abilities.

The problem comes when people stick 1kW or more rated motors on their bikes and want to ride around at ludicrous speeds.

 

[Nealh]

All your hypothersising if all if and buts, only approx. 4 % of uk regularly ride and tbh most will be to lazy to do so on a regular basis e assist or not.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

You talk a lot of sense but can't quite see logic in passing pedelecs laws so they can double up as 2 wheel invalidity scooters?
As it is should someone totally incapable of riding an ordinary bike be riding a pedelec. You are making the bike take on a roll way out of its design parameters. The pedelec is a true hybrid, combining leg power with e power. Take the leg power away and it can't (or shouldn't) really work.
The throttle argument should be self defeating. Bike should need that input rider provides to operate. (at 350% assistance effort on pedals isn't large anyhow, but Should still be required.)
If bike is capable of transit on throttle alone, by definition its not a pedelec. Its an ebike.
(I suspect its why we have 14 year old age requirement to use pedelec, put my 8 year old grandson on my Haibike and it's a motorbike for him, yet still a pedelec for me, especially so if a throttle (being pedantic wrong word, it's an accelerator) is fitted.
The laws are fine.
Pedelecs work brilliantly when used as designed and for roll they were intended. ie) to offer assistance to riders to help climb hills and take some of strain out of cycling. If you change that remit, of course, they are not ideal.

I don't think it would be sensible to call them invalidity scooters on two wheels its just how most ebikes are configured in the world, so at times the motor still propels the bike even without pedalling up to the maximum assistance speed. You might want to concentrate on road conditions more by not pedalling or you want the ability to have absolute full control of the motor for urban traffic and manipulating the bike between vehicles. You may be someone who can put some effort in themselves but gets tired easily and so for part of the trip needs the motor to assist while you recover, this could be someone elderly, or healing from an injury or partially disabled. It can help pull away from junctions if you are weak. Most vehicles in the world are operated by throttles, its the sensible option giving the user full control of motor power up to the allowed assistance speed, it means you can throttle down as you approach more tricky corners with little warning immediately. It's how most ebikes operate in the world. It also aids reliability and simplicity of the ebike, keeps costs down and makes them more accessible.

Most low cost ebikes in the European market have cadence sensors and this massively reduces safety, they take sometime to enable motor power and sometime to switch off and some of them apply full power rather than give motor power control so you start pedalling and then full assistance kicks in, it makes urban situations much more dangerous and makes relying on brake cut off sensors much more critical. So you are often faced with a low grade ebike solution or a premium torque sensor based ebike that offers better control. You are excluding the control that works best of all that most of the world uses which is the throttle control. So in the EU we have reduced ebike safety for low cost ebikes and less accessible ebikes that function better but in most markets throttle ebikes are the majority of most ebikes sold. Even the cheapest nastiest ebike kits often sold in India with brushed motors have a throttle control and they often use cheaper lead acid batteries. A throttle is not just for the disabled or elderly it works best for everyone pretty much.

If people want these over-complicated expensive garbage ebikes so be it, I'm not saying exclude them, people should have the option to buy them of course if they want them. The situation here is the EU has restricted supply of often superior ebikes in order to create a unique marketplace in the EU but there are zero reasons to restrict throttle based ebikes it should just be an option like anything else, like it was here in the UK until 2017.

 

[guerney]

Most low cost ebikes in the European market have cadence sensors and this massively reduces safety, they take sometime to enable motor power and sometime to switch off and some of them apply full power rather than give motor power control so you start pedalling and then full assistance kicks in, it makes urban situations much more dangerous and makes relying on brake cut off sensors much more critical.

If it's a Bafang BBSXX(X), there's an app sort all that out. Mine was pretty much unridable on arrival; quite unsafe... but it's now programmed to apply power gradually and to immediately cut off motor power when pedalling stops. Those and other settings negate your points. It now feels very safe, even on tricky forest paths. I strongly suggest you install a mid-drive yourself sometime. Personally, I wouldn't touch a Tongsheng TSDZ2 with a bargepole.

 

[flecc]

Most vehicles in the world are operated by throttles

Above I've shortened your post to what matters. Those are motor vehicles.

Pedelecs are EAPCs, electric assist pedal cycles. They are not motor vehicles. They are bicycles in law and in fact, so are only intended for those who CAN cycle any unpowered bicycle on the flat in still air, to assist them when the going gets tougher. EAPCs are NOT intended for those who cannot cycle an unpowered bike due to infirmity or disability.

But of course if they have throttles and can propel along the road without pedalling, they are no longer bicycles in law, they are motor vehicles in law so become mopeds, having to be registered as motor vehicles.

They who can cycle a little but not adequately enough have another provision in law, the Low Powered Moped class, legally known as L1e-A. They look every bit like pedelecs and also assist the rider, but they can do that more adequately since they are allowed up to 1000 watts rating.

Forget about campaigning for throttles on pedelecs, you are never going to get them, that is an absolute. Instead campaign for sensible changes that might be achieved by easing our laws in other respects. For example:

Allowing the above L1e-A class to be ridden with a throttle at at any age over 14 without a driving licence and only a cycle helmet rather than a motor cycle one. Also allowing their number plate to be the same small one that the S Class enjoy in some countries. Changes of this sort would create a market for them which manufacturers would fill with a suitable range of models, making them popular and expanding the numbers cycling one way or another.

The French are a good example of the easement that can happen. They have exactly the same pedelec law as us, but have easier low end motor vehicle laws. For example the low powered cars limited to 45kph (28mph) known as quadricycles can be driven by anyone over 14, and a driving licence isn't necessary, just a much easier to obtain safety certificate. And they can carry a passenger, not like our rule of no passengers without a full licence.

We already have an example of that easement here. Those low powered cars can be driven here on a group AM moped driving licence without an instructor, the lighter ones even at 16 years old solo instead of the usual minimum car age of 17 with an instructor. So you can see it's not impossible for us to ease motor vehicle law where appropriate, but we will NOT ease pedelec law, since they have to remain bicycles which are pedalled all the time.
.

 

[vidtek]

Afaiac any throttle should be banned, if one can't ride a pedelec /eapc without leg power then one shouldn't ride one. A low powered bicycle is just that it can help on hills but should be no more.
I am seeing a lot more illegal bikes then before and none are peddaling, one a week ago on the A25 in the surry hills riding along at 25mph.

Neal -This is where I totally disagree with you. A throttle, at least the way I use it, is of great assistance to us older folk who struggle to start off, and is a great enhancement to safety at a crowded set of traffic lights. There is nothing worse than an old fart like me starting off at the lights wobbling all over the road to get started, especially up an incline. No, no you leave our throttles alone. You say if you can't ride without one then you shouldn't be on the road. That to me invalidates the whole raison d'etre of a pedelec. Sureley we want to encourage older folk to be active into older age and cycling gives us great enjoyment.