DVSA take companies to Court for selling illegal bikes.

[guerney]

on my analogue I would ride at about 22mph, so when i went Ebike i was actually surprised i wasnt able to easily get up to that speed easily.

I was used to cycling at about that speed on my racing bike in the 80s, but after my long cycling pause between then and 2020... I now just about manage 19mph on my folding bike conversion, after assistance has stopped at 15.5mph.

I have yet to spot another legal looking pedelec on the roads, mine may be the only one.

 

[guerney]

Worry not, I'm in the blue sky stage of an entirely new rig, not just looking to go faster on my existing axle number 4!

Tadpole recumbent trike conversion with a solar panel canopy? If you add a roll cage, bumpers and mass produce, I'd buy one.

 

[AntonyC]

Tadpole recumbent trike conversion with a solar panel canopy? If you add a roll cage, bumpers and mass produce, I'd buy one.

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

If only we could tick "coming to the UK" <:tearful:>

 

[flecc]

Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick... yep that's an Aptera

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

If only we could tick "coming to the UK" <:tearful:>

We'd need their sun to come here at the same time.
.

 

[guerney]

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

If only we could tick "coming to the UK" <:tearful:>

Several of my neighbours would have to wake up to discover I've sold their kidneys, before I could afford that! I'm sure something similar in function could be made lighter using a tadpole recumbent. "1000 miles on a single charge"? Something like a 60 mile range would suit me. Making the solar canopy would be difficult, as would theft-proofing.

 

[flecc]

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

aptera.us

If only we could tick "coming to the UK" <:tearful:>

The Aussies with their solar car challenge and the Europeans have been doing similar for years.

Scroll down on this page to see more practical designs.
.

 

[AntonyC]

Agree with much of this but saying a 22% hill would soon burn out a small (250w?) motor is none sense.

Good catch, I meant to say _hub_ motor. 250W assist on 22% only gets me to my wobble limit, my hub has to do at least that and soak up as much and more in waste heat.

 

[guerney]

Worry not, I'm in the blue sky stage of an entirely new rig, not just looking to go faster on my existing axle number 4!

Could a bigger and flatter canopy than this, hold enough solar panels?

Veltop Expedition - Rain protection for recumbent trikes

The Veltop Expedition offers excellent protection from rain and sun and allows for year-round riding or long-distance travel in comfort.

www.veltop.eu

 

[Zlatan]

What is incredible is some have the notion that Ebikes are actually faster than analogue bikes. I cant think how many times I've heard that in newspaper reports and in comments sections.
It's utter nonsense, on my analogue I would ride at about 22mph, so when i went Ebike i was actually surprised i wasnt able to easily get up to that speed easily.
Mind you, the Ebike weighs 52lbs, and my analogues usually come in at about 24lbs, obviously mountainbikes. Road bikes are much lighter and their riders usually exceed the 25mph to 30mph quite easily.

I can only surmise whomever came up with the 15.5 has never ridden a bicycle in their life.

Think folk are losing sight of their own limitations and capabilities of pedelecs.
(unless all those under 20 mph averages for cyclists on Strava are wrong)


I do agree/think advantages for offroad /mtb are more pronounced than for road. Buy let's face it, if you are capable of out averaging a pedelecs rider on an analogue bike you don't need or want a pedelec.
So don't get one.??
The rules, laws for pedelecs are straight forward, easy to understand and offer fantastic advantages for I, d guess 90% plus cyclists. A nominal rating of 250 w continuous is adequate. What's a good rider churning out over an hour? 150? 200? Perhaps 400 for short bursts.?
I, ll take the 250w bonus thanks. It'd fine. Gets me up all hills I want, lifted my average by 5mph (at least) and stretched my average ride to 34km from 20 or so.
Personally can't fault either of my ebikes and both are legal. Yes, they don't replace motorbike but they were never intended to.
But back to OP, it's high time some action was taken over the blatant stretching of laws.

 

[guerney]

Good catch, I meant to say _hub_ motor. 250W assist on 22% only gets me to my wobble limit, my hub has to do at least that and soak up as much and more in waste heat.

I've tried to ascend a couple of 45 degree hills over the past few weeks using my bbs01b folding bike conversion - the motor was game, but because my battery is on the rear rack, my bike's balance wasn't - I've got a spare controller, wasn't too fussed about that burning out.

 

[Zlatan]

Good catch, I meant to say _hub_ motor. 250W assist on 22% only gets me to my wobble limit, my hub has to do at least that and soak up as much and more in waste heat.

Agreed, 250 w hub has a much narrower envelope to deliver. Crank drive can spin to its heart content in lower gears,actually keeping current and heat losses /build up to a minimum. I, ve felt my crank drive after a hard 20 minute climb and its barely warmer than normal. I, ve never known it get hot,and I, m 105 kg and bike does get a lot of hard work.

 

[guerney]

But back to OP, it's high time some action was taken over the blatant stretching of laws.

There are enough pen pushers to go after suppliers, but not enough cops to enforce pedelec laws on the roads. If the bodycount increases sufficiently - as with illegal drugs, I expect penalties will become tougher to dissuade illegal ebike use, which won't work any better imho.

 

[StuartsProjects]

But back to OP, it's high time some action was taken over the blatant stretching of laws.

I dont think it will be too long before our current set of politicians will act.

Its clear that a lot of very selfish people think the rules are there to be broken, and that if they are then the only consequences are on them, i.e. being stopped, losing their driving license etc, so whats the problem ?

But I suspect that such blatent breaches of the rules will bring about further restrictions, maybe type approval and registration for all eBikes, which will have a significant impact on us all.

It would be good to see a concerted attempt to enforce the current rules, but I dont see that happening.

 

[Laser Man]

I saw a 2008 I think leaflet online a while ago that said a few things about S-pedelec power, and the detail that jumped out at me was that assistance was not allowed to be more than 400% of rider input.

Have a look at the Which E-bike and Introduce fora -
There are a large number of people looking into e-bikes specifically because they ***cannot*** pedal hard.

In my own case, I Wooshed my bike because I was waiting for a knee replacement and could not walk more than fifty yards without extreme pain. With the bike I was able to get around again - ghost pedalling as necessary - with the bonus of a little bit of exercise.
This would not have worked for me if a 400% maximum assistance had been implented.

 

[matthewslack]

Have a look at the Which E-bike and Introduce fora -
There are a large number of people looking into e-bikes specifically because they ***cannot*** pedal hard.

In my own case, I Wooshed my bike because I was waiting for a knee replacement and could not walk more than fifty yards without extreme pain. With the bike I was able to get around again - ghost pedalling as necessary - with the bonus of a little bit of exercise.
This would not have worked for me if a 400% maximum assistance had been implented.

I found the 400% interesting as a way of limiting max power, not min. Most riders can manage 100W fairly easily for quite a long time, but not much more. The longer the ride, the lower the average rider input. So the average rider input is limited, and a maximum assistance percentage naturally implements 'maximum continuous' rating of the motor rather neatly.

I have no issue with ghost pedalling a cadence sensed 250W compliant hub motor.

Not keen on the same approach to the 1000w and upwards dinner plate wheels!

 

[guerney]

Have a look at the Which E-bike and Introduce fora -
There are a large number of people looking into e-bikes specifically because they ***cannot*** pedal hard.

In my own case, I Wooshed my bike because I was waiting for a knee replacement and could not walk more than fifty yards without extreme pain. With the bike I was able to get around again - ghost pedalling as necessary - with the bonus of a little bit of exercise.
This would not have worked for me if a 400% maximum assistance had been implented.

TBH I wouldn't be cycling, if I hadn't installed a bbs01b on my Dahon folder - I have 100% max assist @15A at all times, and 45 miles just roll by with zero effort. When I initially tried it unrestricted, it felt like flying....suddenly I became the Superman I was in the 80s lol. Despite my best efforts, I'm now ever so slightly fitter - I switched off the motor kit the other day and could actually pedal a bit. The discovery that I've been making enough of an effort to improve my fitness at all, is highly disappointing.

The elderly and/or ill using legal pedelecs as mobility scooters of sorts is completely fine in my view, if their bones are not so brittle they'd shatter in life threatening manner in a fall. One of my very elderly neighbours broke a pelvis and a shoulder after slipping on ice, he was walking home from Tescos.

 

[AndyBike]

Very wrong. Completely the opposite.

So who wrote the law then smarty pants ?. And how do you know that person is actually a cyclist ?.
But thats beside the by. What should be answered is how is European law applicable here, given the road systems are different, and in Europe there have been more attention paid to having wide streets able to suport cycle lanes. That certainly isnt the case in the UK where cyclists are forced to mainly ride on roads with a 30mph limit. In fact its not really a limit and thats the usual speed.

 

[flecc]

So who wrote the law then smarty pants ?. And how do you know that person is actually a cyclist ?.

The laws were written by governments fiercely defensive of cycling and cyclists, and often anti-car. For example, The Netherlands where the government blocked the EU from imposing compulsory cycling helmets, and where 70% of the population cycle. That of course will include numerous civil servants and members of their parliament. To pretend we know better in this country where cycling is at such a low level in comparison is ludicrous.

But thats beside the by. What should be answered is how is European law applicable here, given the road systems are different, and in Europe there have been more attention paid to having wide streets able to suport cycle lanes. That certainly isnt the case in the UK where cyclists are forced to mainly ride on roads with a 30mph limit. In fact its not really a limit and thats the usual speed.

It's not European law, it's the only World standard in existence. It's the law in the 27 (soon to be 30) EU countries, the EFTA and EEC countries, as well as Turkey, Japan, China, Australia and New Zealand. They all seem to manage just fine, probably mainly because they have police forces who do their job more thoroughly.

And the 30 mph argument is nonsensical. I've had 70 years of cycling on our roads with 20 and 30 limits and the national 60 mph limit, yet have never been hurt by or through any motor vehicle actions when cycling. That is mainly because I cycle sensibly at the moderate speeds that most of the world cycles at. Not the silly mock race speeds that so many here seem to feel essential. If they would only slow down and ride like most of the world, they too would never be hurt, never go over the handlebars.

No matter how long you and others rage about the 25 kph limit with silly arguments in support of change, as I've explained it will not change because it cannot change. Any change that might happen will be for more restriction, as our British pedelec laws prior to the EU ones show. Want proof? We are the only one of those countries with the idiotic 14 years lower age limit to ride a pedelec.
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[Nealh]

The faster a cyclist rides on the road then the harder it is for drivers to overtake and then they start taking risks (we all know the driving mentality and it is simple 'must get in front, don't want to be held up'). In most cases it is far easier for vehicles to pass more safely for the cyclist if the cyclist is riding at sub 15/16 mph.

 

[flecc]

In most cases it is far easier for vehicles to pass more safely for the cyclist if the cyclist is riding at sub 15/16 mph.

Absolutely, the vehicle has far less time in the danger zone alongside a 12 mph bicycle.

Much safer than a 30 mph car taking a long time passing a 25 mph+ cyclist.
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