Durable Mountain/City Bike around £2000-3000.

[BogomilPetrov]

Hey guys,

I really need some help in choosing my first E-Bike!

I need something with the following requirements:
1. Suitable for long travel and commutes, as I travel between cities (60-80 km is best).
2. Powerful pushing motor to go up steep hills, as I live in a very hilly area with long steep hills and want to go up them with ease.
3. Rugged and durable frame like a mountain bike, as I tend to like adventuring and going down bumpy and very uneven terrain quite sporty which would rattle any bike.
4. Something comfortable for the bumpy adventure rides and long commutes. Mudguards and Back/Front Rack preferred.
Budget: £2000-3000

The current ones I have stopped on after weeks of searching are:

Wayfarer H9 Hub-Drive Crossbar | Wisper Electric Bicycles (wisperbikes.com)
with Adventure Tires, Front Rack and 700W motor.

Neomouv MOUNTAIN 2 28'' T47 630WH KAKI (neomouv.com)
with 630W motor.

ENDURO | Hikobike
with 670W motor.

Haibike | SDURO Trekking 3.0 | Trekking eBikes

The current one which I really like and want is the Wisper Wayfarer H9.
The only problem with it is that, if possible, I would like to remove the speed restriction on any bike/model I buy while taking full responsibility about that.

The first 2 models in my list including the Wayfarer H9 are discouraging me as they have custom motors and I can not find any information about a way to derestrict them.
The latter 2 in my list seem to have options about how to do this but I am not sure which one to choose.

Would anyone be able to give me some guidance and advice on which one to get or possibly suggest any other models or bikes in my price range which fit my criteria?
Having said that I fully understand the reproductions of me wanting to derestrict the speed on the bikes and I am willing to take the risks on my own head.

Any bike suggestions would be very helpful even if they can not be derestricted. I just want a good choice in this price range!

-Bogo

 

[BogomilPetrov]

Pretty much the conclusion seems to be get a Wisper Wayfarer H9 or build a custom conversion if I want the derestricting option?

I guess I'd be voiding the warranty on any other brand bike in general if I try to derestrict it.

I might pop down to a local E-Bike dealership and ask them to try out a 15.5mph bike anyway to see what I should expect exactly.

@soundwave What is your bike mate? I'm curious after people mentioned it here.

I've narrowed it down to the Wayfarer H9 without ever trying to derestrict, Haibike with a dongle derestriction or a custom conversion build... Not sure if this got easier or harder hah.

 

[Nealh]

I use to ride about as fast as I could when I first had ebikes 20 - 24mph and one soon tires of the extra concentration needed and relises that an accident or an off is going to hurt alot. It's ok going down hill fast with the mass/momentum but out on a ride I find one actaully sees and notices more of the surroundings rather then just going as fast as possible.

 

[soundwave]

 

[georgehenry]

It may have been said above, and also may not be as easy now as when I bought my two bikes, one back in 2011, and the other in 2015, but I took the time to seek out the bikes I had short listed and test ride them.

As a newbie back then in 2011 I test rode a Panasonic crank drive Kalkhoff that I expected to be a formality before buying it, but was a bit underwhelmed and then tried their sport version that I liked but was too pricey for me. The shop were also selling Oxygen Emate citie bikes, a rear hub Chinese generic electric component bike, and I loved it immediately, and bought that for £1399. I still have it, and still use it a lot, though have had to replace some parts, but that has been relatively easy using generic parts cheaply available off ebay.

So I bought a completely different bike to the one I thought I would after test rides, and for me, the test rides were very important and I still love and use that bike a lot.

All bikes have their own feel, and every person responds differently according to what they prefer. The difficulty as a newbie is that you don't know what you prefer yet!

I did the same when I bought my Haibike hard tail Yamaha, test riding several bikes and systems before buying my Haibike, and again doing that has been very worthwhile as the characteristics of the Yamaha crank drive system are exactly to my preference, after comparing it with the market leading Bosch system of that time, as well as other systems.

Also as a newbie I might consider giving the Whoosh Gran-Camino due consideration as a tough well thought out bike from a well regarded supplier with keen pricing.

Though I am sure a Wisper Wayfarer H9 is great, it is quite a lot more money than the Woosh that could enable you to buy a second large spar battery for the Woosh and it still be cheaper.

For maximum range my crank drive Haibike Yamaha is more efficient and flexible than my old cadence controlled rear hub bikes, as it uses a torque system making you contribute a portion of effort to receive a portion of power from the motor. More by luck than judgement the Yamaha motor has proven to be very tough and adds no drag when you select no motor assistance. If you de restrict it and choose a low assist mode, there is no hitting the wall feeling, and the cruising speed is higher than the legal cut out point but not a silly high speed, and naturally restricted by gradients, wind etc, so in the 19 to 22 mph range with a realistic chance of the best of both worlds with a high average speed approaching 20mph and a long range by saving battery capacity where you can without losing speed. Once you gained experience of riding in this way I would expect the Haibike to be able to achieve 50 miles by selecting low or no assistance where gradients allowed. I have certainly found this.

Completely unscientific but I have just come back from a 26 mile ride, mostly off road with 236 metres of vertical difference between my starting point and destination but with plenty of ups and downs in between, and used 37% of my 400Wh original battery now in its eighth year, and only 31% to the base of the last hill to climb home where I upped the assist and used 6% in the last half a mile home. So the way I used the assistance on this ride would equate to a total range of just over 70 miles.

 

[AndyBike]

View attachment 48658

Are we doing Retro now ?.

 

[soundwave]

Are we doing Retro now ?.

still does what i want it to do have new cx motor batt and kiox now has a dpx2 rear shock it is under 24kg with a carbon seat post and can hit 40mph on the flat.

new bike means no dongle and limited chain ring size and even more waight and more expensive locked down batts.

it has lasted 8 years and no reason it wont last another 8 years i want a lighter faster bike with more range so a 15kg bike that can go 50mph for 50 miles is what i would want but not there yet.

 

[Nealh]

All though FS bikes aren't my cuppa nor the looks of the mid drive bikes, SW does know how to look after and keep his bike in tip top condition. He got a cracking deal when he bought it and now all these years later it still looks the biz.

A guy at work has bought a new swanky full suss bosh tache bike and god dos it look so ugly.

 

[soundwave]

 

[AndyBike]

A guy at work has bought a new swanky full suss bosh tache bike and god dos it look so ugly.

Im afraid we have to disagree there. I've always found the DIY approach to ebikes to be anything other than aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Wires exposed, bits of electrical tape flapping in the wind. Mix and match parts, king of the bargain bins.

Fugly is an understatement.

 

[soundwave]

i think he means a bosch mid drive bike but some do look shite and i have never liked the down tube batts 1 because they make the bike even more heavy and they way they are put together means it is impossible to recell them if the bms was not a issue

thing is a bafang hd can **** all over my bike speed wise with a throttle can hit over 50mph on the road but the down side is there are wires everywhere but did a pretty good job cable managing them but you can still see it all.

off road going down hill it just falls apart and as soon as you hit a bump the chain fly's off.

but he uses it for work everyday so it has paid for its self already and rides in any weather tho the bearings need changing as makes a right noise atm but can be sorted cheap and what do you expect doing those speeds it needs to be serviced like any motor with moving parts.

 

[guerney]

Im afraid we have to disagree there. I've always found the DIY approach to ebikes to be anything other than aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Wires exposed, bits of electrical tape flapping in the wind. Mix and match parts, king of the bargain bins.

Fugly is an understatement.

Well... at least it didn't cost me £320 to add a light ( )

Have you installed it yet?

Well that was a bad idea

The exposure light that I recently got, that wires directly into the motor i have just been informed by my LBS i got it at that the job of fitting one is likely to take 4 hours. Personally I think that's a bit of a load of silliness, given exactly how long jobs take,I mean i can likely strip...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

My handsomeness more than makes up for choosing long-term functionality over form No overcompensation required...

 

[AndyBike]

Have you installed it yet?

No, im being extremely lazy these days, I reckon its some sort of depression.

I'm thinking this as Ive new Hope pro 4 wheelset, new Hope tech 3 V4 F&R brakes, new USE carbon bars and seatpost, and new XO 10 speed mech and shifter, and they've all been sat there for a few months.

Normally I fit new bits the moment i get them home or via post, but with this stuff and this new light im just sitting on it, as if waiting for something.

Admittedly, the new rear wheel is a different rotor-center lock to Hope 6 bolt, so that requires a bit of faffing about, plus the different magnet for the sensor will probably need taken on and off to get that right, plus the entire job of fitting new rear brake plus new mech especially as there might be an issue with the replaceable gear hanger going from Shimano to Sram, which i think might be different, so could involve that part being replaced.

I've also got to decide on new forks. Either RS Pike ultimate, Lyrik ultimate or maybe a zeb.

Unless of course a new fox 38 factory turns up at a remarkable price

I think with the light its already plumbed in, i just haven't got round to looking int he space above the battery in the down tube for the end of the lighting rig wire.

But im sure I'll get there. Bike is pretty much in daily use, so having it off the road for up to 2 days maybe 3 will be an utter pain in the bum.
If im lucky and all parts go on cleanly with the minimum of fuss, i can have it all done in a day( with plenty of coffee and ciggie breaks.)

 

[guerney]

No, im being extremely lazy these days, I reckon its some sort of depression.

£320 to add a bike light, would certainly depress the hell out of me! And you can't know if "Sabotage light installation by owner" has been enabled.

 

[The Silverfox]

Cube Kathmandu range would fit your needs. The Pro range have the Bosch Performance CX with 85nm torque that will eat up hills. If you get it with the 625 battery that should give you enough range for a return journey provided you don’t do it all in Turbo, and should be at the top end of your price range. The frame Is mountain bike style and will handle pretty much anything. For comfort you have front air suspension and a suspension seat post.

[Edit] As for riding over 15mph, the motor gradually fades out rather than just cuts so it lets you back into non-assistance gradually and there is no drag on the motor. I’ve had mine up to 20mph on the flat and it just feel like a normal bike at that speed.

 

[AndyBike]

£320 to add a bike light, would certainly depress the hell out of me!

Well cost of light is what it costs, so any light would be subject to its retail costs, i can hardly include that in any estimate. The work estimate is 4 hours, which ive said is simply ridiculous. But the fitting time is UP TO 4 hours, so i suppose if they poke about, find the wire i believe to be there the whole job could take under an hour. He was I suppose just quoting me outside ball park.
Personally I think if the pre wired wire is there then its a short job.
My other light is an Exposure Toro, which is about £220.

And you can't know if "Sabotage light installation by owner" has been enabled.

Well it is Bosch isnt it. So probably first electrocutes the owner before locking the system and sending a report back to Bosch HQ
From there the atuomated letter is send - You've f****d your guarantee ha ha ha ha.

 

[guerney]

Well it is Bosch isnt it. So probably first electrocutes the owner before locking the system and sending a report back to Bosch HQ
From there the atuomated letter is send - You've f****d your guarantee ha ha ha ha.

Does the display activate the light circuit? If the Bosch controller is very sensitive to short circuits, could it shut down if the wires are live right now and they touch? Would you then need a new Bosch controller, or could it be revived? You could leave the battery out for several hours before trying to connect the lights, in case there is some residual current. Alternatively, spending "Up to" £200 and letting the professionals deal with it, gets you the wallet pain you've paid Bosch for.

 

[soundwave]

bikes sold with no lights fitted from new has the light setting default to off and a dealer needs to activate it.

if you blow a bosch controller then the only option is a new motor.

 

[AndyBike]

Can we confirm what you mean by 'controller' Far as im aware thats the display thingy sits on the bar.

A prewired bike is just that pre wired. It will be connected into the motor and should just be a simple case of connecting the wires from it to the wires on the light. Then enabling it via the diagnostic app, whichj i believe you can download yourself and run it so no dealer input is really needed. I've watched a number of vids of people wiring in lights directly, and none of whom were ebike sellers or shops.

I honestly do not see a bike costing £5k being something that is going to present problems when in the specs its listing as pre wired.
This is more a case of some cheapo Chinese made hub motor affair..£999 out of the interweb.

 

[guerney]

It's worth taking care no matter how expensive your bike was. If the light is switched on by the display, those wires won't have current until the light is switched on by the display, but it's easy to check for voltage using a multimeter. Avoid cutting both wires at the same time, if your cutting tool is conductive and the wires are live. If the wires have current, cut one wire at a time using a cutting tool with insulated handles, taking care to not touch the conductive part, if you're not wearing electrically insulating gloves.

 

[Woosh]

Can we confirm what you mean by 'controller' Far as im aware thats the display thingy sits on the bar.

A prewired bike is just that pre wired. It will be connected into the motor and should just be a simple case of connecting the wires from it to the wires on the light. Then enabling it via the diagnostic app, whichj i believe you can download yourself and run it so no dealer input is really needed. I've watched a number of vids of people wiring in lights directly, and none of whom were ebike sellers or shops.

I honestly do not see a bike costing £5k being something that is going to present problems when in the specs its listing as pre wired.
This is more a case of some cheapo Chinese made hub motor affair..£999 out of the interweb.

the controller is the circuit that controls the motor. On Bosch motors, it's the large green board that you see when you open the motor casing. The problem with using prewired lighting system is the accidental shortcircuits that you may inflict on the electronics if your lights fail or their wiring get mangled during a fall. If that happens on a Chinese bike, it may kill the LCD because the on/off circuitry is in the LCD, on a Bosch bike, it's on the controller so the potential repair cost is much higher. If you need powerful front light, I recommend using a separate USB rechargeable light. No wiring is needed.