Drunk & in charge of a COW !

[surfer69]

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1425648_ancient-law-snares-man-caught-drink-driving-riding-electric-bike

I know the guy was on a scooter ( or walking it ! ) but it could have repercussions for the electric bike community.

What does everyone think ?

 

[flecc]

Your link is broken surfer69. Here is the corrected link.

 

[indalo]

Blimey! I didn't know that one. One lives and learns.

Regards,
Indalo

 

[flecc]

The drunk in charge of a bicycle definitely applies, but that old carriage law doesn't if it's a legal e-bike as the article acknowledges. It only worked because there were no pedals on the bike on that first occasion.

I don't know why the police bothered with that ancient law, they could have had him on worse charges on that first occasion when without pedals, since it was then an unregistered motor vehicle with all that entails.
.

 

[Mussels]

It seems a bit steep applying the maximum fine when he wasn't reasonably expected to know it was illegal.
I wonder how the prosecutors though process went for this one:
"Oh dear the silly policeman has arrested him on a false assumption, maybe we should say so and let him go. Actually I don't like the way he spoke to me and accused me of not knowing my arse from my elbow, he may have been right but I'm going to look through every obscure rulebook I can find because he must have been breaking a law somewhere and if not I'm sure we can twist the interpretation of an unrelated law if needed."

 

[surfer69]

Thanks for the correction. It's first time I've used the forum. Is there a way to edit the original ?

Your link is broken surfer69. Here is the corrected link.

 

[jumpin]

I remember years ago, there was a signalman charged with being drunk in charge of a signalbox. Also i've heard of a woman being charged with being drunk in charge of a baby while she was pushing it down the pavement in a pram. I think there all guilty of putting innocent lives at risk, including the guy on the e bike.

 

[micropilot]

Hold on a sec. Drunk in charge of a bike should indeed be an offence if you are riding it and therfore dangerous to yourself and others. But pushing it!? Surely our brave men in blue have better things to do. is this guy a known offender or someone who has p****d the police off in some way. Walking whilst holding a bike even after having a drink, is surely one of the least offences.
just my tuppenceworth as a first ever post here.

 

[rsscott]

Thanks for the correction. It's first time I've used the forum. Is there a way to edit the original ?

You can edit a post within a couple of hours of first posting it. I've corrected the link for you as well.

 

[rog_london]

The drunk in charge of a bicycle definitely applies, but that old carriage law doesn't if it's a legal e-bike as the article acknowledges. It only worked because there were no pedals on the bike on that first occasion.

I don't know why the police bothered with that ancient law, they could have had him on worse charges on that first occasion when without pedals, since it was then an unregistered motor vehicle with all that entails.
.

Interesting - but does an ebike become an 'unregistered motor vehicle' because the pedals have been removed and it's not actually being ridden? I can see that causing some paradoxes - such as, if you're carrying out maintenance at the side of the road and for some reason you remove a pedal or maybe the thread strips so the pedal falls off - does the vehicle immediately become illegal? How about if the chain is removed or breaks so the pedals don't work? What if there's no battery fitted or you unplug the motor - is it still an ebike?

I'm not looking for answers to these daft questions - let's hope we never find out the hard way....

Rog.

 

[Alex728]

Hold on a sec. Drunk in charge of a bike should indeed be an offence if you are riding it and therfore dangerous to yourself and others. But pushing it!? Surely our brave men in blue have better things to do. is this guy a known offender or someone who has p****d the police off in some way.

This was exactly what I thought.

This is a more in depth article in which it is revealed that he has already lost his car driving license for DUI, and was clearly committing other offences such as not having lights and riding on a pavement so perhaps its not surprising the cops and the beak treated him a bit more harshly...

Oldham News | News Headlines | 1872 law collars boozed-up rider - Chronicle Online

 

[Jon]

This does sound somewhat trivial and a waste of money on the front of it but as others have said there could be an underlying issue here were not told about, is he a local prat and the Police are trying to get a ABC or ASBO issued? I doubt he is a typical law abiding person

 

[Orraman]

[Quote from the article

Most of the 1872 Licensing Act has been superseded but some of it remains in force.
The law still creates an offence of being drunk in public and of being drunk in charge of a carriage – since reinterpreted to include bicycles.
Unquote]

Many years ago a book showed a photograph of a parade of bicycles in a city where each bike had a lightweight frame which appeared to be about 4 foot wide and about 7 foot long and made of wooden laths that was suspended horizontally around the bike by cords.

The book explained that the intention was to remind the public that in 1902 the High Court had decided that a bicycle was a Carriage Within the Meaning of the Act and thereby entitled to a carriage width.

I have been towing a trailer that extends outboard beyond the width of my bike for more than 20 years.

Dave

 

[billadie]

Quote from the Manchester Evening News

The 1872 Licensing Act was originally brought in to crack down on anyone caught drunk in charge of a carriage, steam engine, a horse or a cow.

Is there a special penalty (or a prize) for anyone caught drunk in charge of a carriage, steam engine, a horse and a cow? Simultaneouly.

 

[mishabgt]

This brings to mind something I learnt very early on in my early driving days (and yes, Im talking a while ago now!)....
I was told that under UK law, there are only 2 things you cannot be charged with being drunk in charge of...
1. Horse and carriage
2. A Boat

Believe it or not, you CAN be charged with being drunk in charge of a pushchair, a wheelchair and a steam roller, to name a few "randoms". If you have a current driving licence, you can also have points put on it as a result (if you don't you can't but CAN have them put on when you get one!) so it's worth bearing in mind.

One thing that makes me laugh is when you see electric bikes advertised as the "perfect alternative to taking your car to the pub"... you'll get points just the same if they catch you!

 

[flecc]

Interesting - but does an ebike become an 'unregistered motor vehicle' because the pedals have been removed and it's not actually being ridden?

Yes and the law on this is clear and has been ruled upon. There was a test case on one of the scooters with vestigial but impractical pedals and it was ruled that if the pedals don't work to propel the bike etc, it is no longer an e-bike. E-bike law is one of exemption from motor vehicle laws. Without exemption it automatically becomes a motor vehicle.

There is of course a big difference in law between the deliberate act of removing pedals and an accidental loss of a chain etc.

 

[Mussels]

One thing that makes me laugh is when you see electric bikes advertised as the "perfect alternative to taking your car to the pub"... you'll get points just the same if they catch you!

You won't get points as it's not classed as a motor vehicle, people have been given points incorrectly before now but there have also been successful appeals.
Rather more bizzarely people have lost their license for riding a toddlers electric toy before now, they are technically unregistered motor vehicles. I wonder how that would apply to radio control toys if the drunk person is driving it but not riding with it?

 

[flecc]

I wonder how that would apply to radio control toys if the drunk person is driving it but not riding with it?

I've wondered about this myself. On my estate both kids and adults often run radio controlled cars on the roads over considerable distances, I've even seen them running with the traffic and racing the buses. I believe there are laws which exempt the toy pavement cars that small children ride on, but I'm not sure how on-road use of fast radio controlled vehicles would be viewed. I suspect it's prosecutable as a driving offence since drivers can be charged with drink driving even after leaving their cars but in possession of the keys. A radio controller is arguably the equivalent of car keys in this circumstance.

 

[Mussels]

I tried to find out and the definition of vehicle says it is used to transport people or items, so the RC car is probably exempt unless it's towing a skateboard.
For the childrens toy cars, here's a popular link and I think there have been others
Man loses licence after drink-driving in toy Barbie car - Telegraph

 

[flecc]

the RC car is probably exempt unless it's towing a skateboard.

The police would probably have to use an obstruction charge for on-road use in that case then, I can't think of any other.