Driver passes too close despite lollipop on passing side

[passionate off roader]

Use a helmet cam.

Send any dangerous driving video to the rozzers and (so long as the number plate is legible) the motorist will get a fine and points on their license

lt certainly works in London, perhaps too well, but other cities are following the lead.

It would have to be pretty bloody bad for me to dob anyone in. Not a slightly closer than usual overtake.

There is already a certain amount of alienation between driver and cyclist, and we don't want to make that any worse by turning ourselves into traffic wardens on two wheels.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

It would have to be pretty bloody bad for me to dob anyone in. Not a slightly closer than usual overtake.

If we all use cameras, we'll have the option.

 

[guerney]

It would have to be pretty bloody bad for me to dob anyone in. Not a slightly closer than usual overtake.

With safe looking close passes of less than 5ft, one is a sneeze/deep pothole/overcaffeinated jerk response to a mobile phone ring/child or pet distraction/other away from a dead or injured cyclist.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

....and the badgers.....

The very kind elderly couple with the old (and roomy) Volvo estate were amused that I was more worried about the badger, so were hospital staff. I wasn't in any state to go looking for it, and the RSPCA don't attend unless the precise location of the animal is known. It was probably mortally injured

 

[WheezyRider]

....and the badgers.....

Badgers are another reason why you should not cycle in the gutter, but place yourself at least 600 to 750 mm from the curb as a secondary riding position on the road.

 

[WheezyRider]

It would have to be pretty bloody bad for me to dob anyone in. Not a slightly closer than usual overtake.

There is already a certain amount of alienation between driver and cyclist, and we don't want to make that any worse by turning ourselves into traffic wardens on two wheels.

It's not "dobbing someone in" it's a case of trying to change dangerous behaviour before someone gets killed or seriously injured.

I have had drivers deliberately swerve at me as they passed, blowing their horn etc...essentially using their vehicle as a weapon. I've had things thrown at me, I've been spat at, verbally abused etc etc. This should not happen just because you happen to use a mode of transport that some people find offensive.

If someone walked down the street swinging a baseball bat around people's heads as they went along, they'd get arrested. But using a car as a weapon seems totally acceptable to many people and the police often show little interest. Hence cameras are often the only way you can call out people's unacceptable behaviour.

Not all cyclists act like saints, some of them annoy me a lot. However, you have to look at the relative risk of someone acting like a tit on bike, and someone with an attitude problem in a two tonne metal safety box travelling at many times the speed of a bike.

 

[WheezyRider]

With safe looking close passes of less than 5ft, one is a sneeze/deep pothole/overcaffeinated jerk response to a mobile phone ring/child or pet distraction/other away from a dead or injured cyclist.

Yes, when approaching a bike in a car, you have to think, where will that rider's head be if they fall off in front of me? A pothole, a sudden bump in the road...and off you go. Hence the 1.5 m or approx 5ft guideline at LESS THAN 30 mph and more space than this on higher speed limit roads.

I'm sorry Flecc, a pass at less than 5 feet from a cyclist's handlebars is not a safe pass. If there isn't room on the road to do this, YOU SHOULD NOT TRY TO PASS, just WAIT.

Our culture is far too centred on cars and the importance of cars not being slowed down. This has to change. People need to relearn patience.

Imagine meeting a horse rider on a narrow country lane. Would you force your way past just so you would not be delayed?

 

[flecc]

I'm sorry Flecc, a pass at less than 5 feet from a cyclist's handlebars is not a safe pass. If there isn't room on the road to do this, YOU SHOULD NOT TRY TO PASS, just WAIT.

I'm not quite sure you addressed me when you were replying to Guerney?

However, I wish you'd been in my car with me this morning on a South London trip between South Croydon and a part of Beckenham. This being London and the day sunny and pleasant, there were quite a few cyclists about and the traffic was as heavy as it always is in London.

All the drivers I saw were being careful with cyclists and all the cyclists were obviously content with how they were being treated, but at no point were any of them given 1.5 metres passing space. A metre when there was space was common, but often barely 2 feet. That was because it was all that was possible, due to the road widths, frequent quite closely spaced pedestrian road islands, cars densely parked both sides of many roads and bus, truck and van widths.

Like me with my over half century cycling and driving here, nobody was finding any problem with this situation, they were all just making the best of what we have. The closeness wasn't just due to the drivers anyway, since as traffic slowed the cyclists were riding into confined space alongside vehicles, meaning as the vehicles accelerated again they were technically passing with very little space and the drivers often not even aware of their presence.

The cyclists could hang back and wait of course, just as the drivers could with a cyclist ahead, but it's obvious that most find that unnecessary so carry on anyway. The accident figures for London show they are not wrong.

From around 22 deaths per year being common when there was little cycling in London four decades ago, 8 per year is now more common with hundreds of thousands commuting every day by bike.

A 2019 survey of recent years revealed there were 0.68 fatalities per 100,000 cyclists in London. This compares to 1.77 in Amsterdam, 1.04 in Copenhagen and 0.75 in Paris. That's pretty good considering the amazing segregated cycling facilities in Amsterdam and Copenhagen.

And something to reflect on. Look at the hordes of cyclists around the motor vehicles in the London photos I've been posting. Do you really think a driver or their driving can be aggressive or bullying when surrounded by 20 or 30 fit cyclists?

Simple answer, they can't, and that is another reason we usually get on ok together. There's lots of both of us.
.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

It's completely ok, while you're not a dead or injured cyclist.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Aren't you in in Germany Andy? Are the drivers much better there towards cyclists?

Speaking ONLY for myself, in the 41 years I have lived here, using bikes at the weekend when I worked, and the whole week since I retired in early 2006, yes, German car drivers seem to give more room to cyclists.
I do not know of anyone ho has been hit while riding either, though I see news items that show it is not 100% safe here.....but seldom.
German car drivers drive pretty badly on the Autobahns, but bikes are forbidden anyway on them!
regards
Andy

 

[lightning]

l ride on the road quite a bit, in fact l just got back from a road ride. Most drivers are fine, they give plenty of room when overtaking or they will wait for a safe place to pass.

Also if there's a few cars unable to pass due to a narrow road or traffic coming the other way, l will if possible pull over or briefly go on to the pavement to let them get past.

 

[passionate off roader]

It's not "dobbing someone in" it's a case of trying to change dangerous behaviour before someone gets killed or seriously injured.

I have had drivers deliberately swerve at me as they passed, blowing their horn etc...essentially using their vehicle as a weapon. I've had things thrown at me, I've been spat at, verbally abused etc etc. This should not happen just because you happen to use a mode of transport that some people find offensive.

If someone walked down the street swinging a baseball bat around people's heads as they went along, they'd get arrested. But using a car as a weapon seems totally acceptable to many people and the police often show little interest. Hence cameras are often the only way you can call out people's unacceptable behaviour.

Not all cyclists act like saints, some of them annoy me a lot. However, you have to look at the relative risk of someone acting like a tit on bike, and someone with an attitude problem in a two tonne metal safety box travelling at many times the speed of a bike.

I can honestly say that I've never once experienced that. Not once, ever, period. So it does kind of beg the question of what exactly you're doing to annoy them to that extent.

 

[guerney]

I can honestly say that I've never once experienced that. Not once, ever, period. So it does kind of beg the question of what exactly you're doing to annoy them to that extent.

Before this pandemic got me cycling again, I saw a cyclist getting his face splashed with orange juice by the occupants of a car as it drove by. He did well to not crash into the wall immediately to his left. I didn't see the cyclist doing anything to provoke this.

 

[lightning]

lt could depend on where in the country you are.
Round here l've never had any issues cycling on the road.
But my brother lived in London for some years, commuted by bike, and it's a lot worse there, caused in part by the behaviour of cyclists but also the mentality of car drivers in the City.

 

[WheezyRider]

I can honestly say that I've never once experienced that. Not once, ever, period. So it does kind of beg the question of what exactly you're doing to annoy them to that extent.

So you want to get into victim blaming rather than address the real cause of the problem? Why assume it is my fault people do this?

This sort of thing happens all the time and the more miles you do on the road, the more likely it is to happen. If it hasn't happened to you yet, then you've been lucky. It doesn't seem to matter too much where you are, it happens and all too frequently. If you look on the web/social media you will see a lot of other people have experienced this - women in particular seem to be singled out for abuse.

If you do a lot of your miles off road, you may not encounter this so much, or maybe you are good at ignoring bad driver behaviour.

 

[lightning]

lt doesn't happen around here, but it does happen in London where my brother lived.

My guess is that the more clogged with cars a place is, the less patient the car drivers become, and also the cyclists become more mercenary.

Not all drivers/cyclists of course, just some.

 

[passionate off roader]

So you want to get into victim blaming rather than address the real cause of the problem? Why assume it is my fault people do this?

This sort of thing happens all the time and the more miles you do on the road, the more likely it is to happen. If it hasn't happened to you yet, then you've been lucky. It doesn't seem to matter too much where you are, it happens and all too frequently. If you look on the web/social media you will see a lot of other people have experienced this - women in particular seem to be singled out for abuse.

If you do a lot of your miles off road, you may not encounter this so much, or maybe you are good at ignoring bad driver behaviour.

It's not a question of "victim blaming", which is a somewhat loaded and emotive term. It's merely trying to establish why, in now over 1000 miles of urban and suburban on road cycling, I've not encountered one instance of car driver hostility, yet you've experienced this:-

I have had drivers deliberately swerve at me as they passed, blowing their horn etc...essentially using their vehicle as a weapon. I've had things thrown at me, I've been spat at, verbally abused etc etc.

I just find such a difference very odd, which made me wonder if you do anything which might provoke them into reacting in such a way.

 

[WheezyRider]

It's not a question of "victim blaming", which is a somewhat loaded and emotive term. It's merely trying to establish why, in now over 1000 miles of urban and suburban on road cycling, I've not encountered one instance of car driver hostility, yet you've experienced this:-



I just find such a difference very odd, which made me wonder if you do anything which might provoke them into reacting in such a way.

You must be lucky to live in an area where people in cars are more civil, or you are able to completely zone out to what is going on around you. Maybe you are 6'6" tall and built like the proverbial outhouse and drivers feel too intimidated to try it on with you. Happens to me all the time though and sometimes I don't even need to be on the road. Last night on the way home I was on a shared path minding my own business and a white van came off the roundabout at speed towards me, driver out of the window screaming abuse at me. I am still baffled as to what was going on in his deranged brain.