Dodgy Ebay Listing
- Thread starter jerrysimon
- Start date
Attempted fraud by false representation. Max 10 years from crown court or 1 from the mags.
"attempt": s 1(1) COA 1981 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/47
"fraud by false representation": s 2 FA 2006.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/2
Not only is that a crime, it is a serious one, because of what happens if the attempt succeeds.
You are quite right there is a remote chance he has some similar goods, but, that is a finding of fact for others to make. There is a far greater chance that he doesn't have the goods, and that's why it's properly reported to the police to investigate as a possible attempted fraud by false representation.
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Oh dear.
So the police wrote back and thanked me and said they were passing it on to their intelligence unit to look into the seller. So far so good.
Then I just got an email from the seller:
"[my name and address]
WHY IS YOUR ADDRESS ON A BIG BANNER OUTISDE MCDZ?
[picture of car part I'm selling on ebay for my quite distinctive car]"
So he's basically saying he knows where I live (must have got my address automatically to send an invoice to when the last auction was won), he knows what car I drive, he's a villain, and he's angry with me. And I've got a £15,000 bid on the current auction which ends in 24hrs. Hm.
So the police wrote back and thanked me and said they were passing it on to their intelligence unit to look into the seller. So far so good.
Then I just got an email from the seller:
"[my name and address]
WHY IS YOUR ADDRESS ON A BIG BANNER OUTISDE MCDZ?
[picture of car part I'm selling on ebay for my quite distinctive car]"
So he's basically saying he knows where I live (must have got my address automatically to send an invoice to when the last auction was won), he knows what car I drive, he's a villain, and he's angry with me. And I've got a £15,000 bid on the current auction which ends in 24hrs. Hm.
Unfortunately there's not much they can do unless money changes hands.
Same for from banks. When a Barclays in Leicester contacted after 'winning' a very cheap expensive motorcycle on fleabay. I was given their bank details to transfer money to, so using the sort code I spoke to the bank about the fraud but they didn't want to know unless I'd actually lost any money.
Still amazed despite us reporting it to ebay the listing hasn't been taken down.
Same for from banks. When a Barclays in Leicester contacted after 'winning' a very cheap expensive motorcycle on fleabay. I was given their bank details to transfer money to, so using the sort code I spoke to the bank about the fraud but they didn't want to know unless I'd actually lost any money.
Still amazed despite us reporting it to ebay the listing hasn't been taken down.
Please see my previous post about attempts at fraud by false representation giving rise to the same liability as a successful attempt.
A bank has no legal duty to report crime (at least not this sort).
A bank has no legal duty to report crime (at least not this sort).
I could be wrong, but I always thought that sellers automatically receive the winning bidders address/contact details at the end of an auction.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
This was exactly my point, up to this stage, the person, male or female, does not seem to have committed a serious offence and now Jonathan is worried that he may be subject to a very serious offence.
I do hope that he has reported this far more worrying development to the police.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
I feel like asking whether anyone else might be willing to exceed my £15k bid on the brompton, given this guy seems to have my details, and has the hump - but I don't want to expose anyone else to danger also. This guy seems to have the hump at me in a big way and I don't want his attentions any more.
If anyone was going to do that, you'd need to make sure you first change your name and address in ebay and email address and anything else that gives them a clue who you are, including seller business addresses for returns purposes on your seller account etc. I am sure that ebay sends them your recorded details when you win the auction.
...
John, maybe you're right about no attempt at fraud having been made out - the law says an attempt is where someone does something more than merely preparatory to the commission of the offence. So maybe he hasn't gone that far yet. I'm not sure. And yes I'm worried about the other thing you mentioned. What worries me about ringing the police is winding this guy up further. I very strongly want to report him for malicious comms/public order offence, but a little voice is telling me that might not be pragmatic.
If anyone was going to do that, you'd need to make sure you first change your name and address in ebay and email address and anything else that gives them a clue who you are, including seller business addresses for returns purposes on your seller account etc. I am sure that ebay sends them your recorded details when you win the auction.
...
John, maybe you're right about no attempt at fraud having been made out - the law says an attempt is where someone does something more than merely preparatory to the commission of the offence. So maybe he hasn't gone that far yet. I'm not sure. And yes I'm worried about the other thing you mentioned. What worries me about ringing the police is winding this guy up further. I very strongly want to report him for malicious comms/public order offence, but a little voice is telling me that might not be pragmatic.
for what its worth I reported it on ebay too, my sympathy - I realise its easy to say, but in your shoes id run the risk of informing the police of the threat, its much more serious than fraud
What surprises me is that he is aware of your bidding and knows what happened the first time that he has not blocked you from bidding, unless he is able to do this immediately before the end of the listing, thus using yours to raise the bid for the second placed bid. I reported the listing to eBay earlier.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Slightly off topic here, assuming the bidders other than Jonathan are genuinely interested in buying such a bike there would apear to be a demand for electric Bromptons built to Jerry's high standard, so it could be time for Jerry to build some more.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Hi Jonathan,
It might help to take the heat out of your personal situation if you retract your bids.
Of course this would not help other bidders.
It might help to take the heat out of your personal situation if you retract your bids.
Of course this would not help other bidders.
Why did you get involved? surely the person or persons who feel so strongly about this sale and posted it should be the ones to follow it up, it appears to me that you are the fall guy who is going to get all the flack. You did it the first time and now you are the front runner again, looks like 3 members are involved according to the bidding, why not retract your bid and let the auction take it's course.
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call me naive if you like, but i'm happy we dont live in world where each of us meticulously mind our own business and take care of ourselves and let unsuspecting others step into traps when were aware of it.
It is not a case of letting people fall into traps, the dodgy listing was highlighted on the forum which was excellent, the item was reported to e-bay/police, at that point pursuing it in the way it has been takes us back to adapting a "lynch mob" attitude, I am not defending the person who listed the bike or criticising you comments but everything we can do has been done.
Just to clarify my initial reason for creating this post was to ensure that no one was duped into purchasing the bike. I did not expect others to work on my behalf in reporting it, or get involved in spurious bids which has led to them being worried about this dubious character.
Having said that, I think it was helpful to report the listing jointly to ebay and the other lists it was posted on. It is a shame that ebay have not taken stronger action, maybe at least removing the user account. I have reported this new listing several times again to ebay.
On reflection perhaps I should have placed the post in the stolen section rather than the main post listing.
Regards
Jerry
Having said that, I think it was helpful to report the listing jointly to ebay and the other lists it was posted on. It is a shame that ebay have not taken stronger action, maybe at least removing the user account. I have reported this new listing several times again to ebay.
On reflection perhaps I should have placed the post in the stolen section rather than the main post listing.
Regards
Jerry
Not quite true.
Jonathan,
Save yourself by delisting your bids. If you (anyone) wants to bid, create a new email and eBay account and bid with those give false info on everything and set it up from a public library or other public free to access pc. That should make tracking you much harder for the criminal doing the dodgy listing!
(I'm leaving the bidding to those who want to get involved. I've just provided the means to remain anonymous and pass on the accounts to the police for full records analysis.) EBay can't complain about giving them bad data if it is to prevent crimes when they are failing to act! I doubt an email provider will either!
James
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