Do we have a “Volt” bike representative among us?

[Muddy]

I see that would be an issue, but would using plasticine or something similar be so difficult? Then it would be easy dismantled, hold everything in place and even be reusable when roaring batteries
I’m just saying with a bit of thought from the clever people our green transport option would be just a wee bit greener

 

[wheeliepete]

I totally agree with you Muddy, I'm sure with all the brilliant tech we have in the world today, a better way could be developed and in time, maybe this will be addressed, but I think as things stand at present, the priorities are making cells that have higher power density and developing ways of prolonging their life expectancy. Companies like Bosch demand all the warranty replaced batteries ( and motors) returned to them, but they don't repair them to resell, it's just R+D on the fly, to see what failed and look at ways to improve their product. I'm sure the cell packs are all sent for recycling ( oh to be able to go through that recycling bin)

 

[davell]

After talking to the bloke I bought it from ( I hoped he could sort under warranty) tonight, it seems I might have the smaller battery (£330) new which seems a bit more tolerable
But. On website it sells standard for 330 and x large for 590, mines has large on it so no idea what I have. Fella says original invoice says standard...
he probably can’t do warranty as he already talked to fella in bike shop and told him he sold it
Why warranties don’t transfer with owners is beyond me

I have a volt bike with the same battery. I believe from the images that you do have the ‘large’ battery (which I also have) with the same label.

I recently enquired with volt re the battery capacities. Here is the reply:

the standard batteries have a capacity of 400Wh (36V, 11Ah) and the large batteries have a capacity of 522Wh ( 36V, 14.5Ah). We also just introduced a new even larger battery with 630Wh (36V, 17.5Ah) capacity.

This was quite recent so I guess you may have the 522Wh


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Nealh]

I wonder if most of these packs is down to having faulty bms or wiring.
On ES there is a guy from the EU who cells copious amounts of ex Bosch cell packs, not just one specific cell type but often has 5 or 6 different bare cell packs available for a very good price. They are all welded together.

 

[wheeliepete]

Yes Neal, I've bought cells from him with no problems and wondered the same. He's been doing it for a few years now without any major complaints. Those welded packs are deff. Bosch and he happens to live in the same country where they are made. This is a BMS from a Bosch pack.
Not surprised they fail

 

[b3ckford]

I have a volt bike with the same battery. I believe from the images that you do have the ‘large’ battery (which I also have) with the same label.

I recently enquired with volt re the battery capacities. Here is the reply:

the standard batteries have a capacity of 400Wh (36V, 11Ah) and the large batteries have a capacity of 522Wh ( 36V, 14.5Ah). We also just introduced a new even larger battery with 630Wh (36V, 17.5Ah) capacity.

This was quite recent so I guess you may have the 522Wh


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I also have a Volt Bigfoot (purchased this year) It has "Spin tech" on the top of the battery instead of "Volt".

It's suppsosed to be an XL so im guessing its the 630Wh one.

Thanks for the info.

 

[georgehenry]

I had a similar experience with a 400Wh Yamaha Battery when a connector pin where the charger connects to the battery sheared off.

The dealer I had bought the bike from had given me really superb customer service on all other issues I had with the bike, so it was a bit of a shock when I was told by them that they were not allowed to touch the battery and also had no facility to be able to send the battery away to get it repaired.

In my case both the plug that attached the charger to the battery was damaged and the sheared of connector pin at the battery.

The only option I was given by the dealer was to buy a new battery and charger which in the case of my smaller 400Wh Yamaha battery and charger is still a whopping £800 for the pair.

The dealer did say that I had nothing to lose repairing it myself.

As well as the money it just felt wrong to throw away a battery that was working faultlessly until the broken connector issues and likewise a perfectly good charger.

Anyway the good news is that I was able to repair the battery and charger myself and although I have only fitted a generic four way plug that I got off ebay for less than a fiver it is actually easier and more secure to use than the bespoke but flimsy Yamaha original.

I have a mate who is an ex BT engineer and we opened up the battery and soldiered the wires directly inside where they cannot be broken. Nothing dreadful happened when we opened the battery and it charged just as before when we put it back together.

I do use my bike to commute to work and back and agree that used in this way an electric bike can be a very green mode of transport but not if you cannot get perfectly serviceable items fixed.

This all happened back in April when the bike had covered 8932 miles since I bought it in March 2015. To be honest once you fix something you sort of forget about the hassle you had, but I have covered 784 miles since and the battery which is now nearly three and a half years old shows almost no signs of degradation since when it was new so it would have been a crying shame to have thrown it away. I am up to 9716 miles now.


The battery and BMS must be high quality to be working so well with the miles I have covered so it is doubly galling that Yamaha/Raleigh the importers cannot do simple repairs when they are needed.

My last ride to work was on Friday where 14 mainly off road miles to work used 28% of a full battery using lowest assist or off. 10 Miles road return used 33% of a full battery using lowest eco and middle standard to travel faster. 400Wh battery. Odometer now showing 9716 miles since purchasing the bike in March 2015.

I posted some pictures of this ride in Electric mountain bike forum/eMTB owners photo and ride thread.

As I have said above I cannot fault the dealer where I bought the bike, this is about Raleigh the importer and being able to repair simple faults. Makes a potentially very green mode of transport not very green at all!

 

[Muddy]

I have to agree with your view about the bike shop, my local dealer have been superb with me, it’s volt that I have a problem with
They market bikes using the green travel as a selling tool, there should be a requirement to be green throughout the bikes life including all electrics. If not a legal requirement, surely they have a moral one
My other issue with them and most other manufacturers is, why can’t warranties be transferred with ownership?
It’s a real shame I bought volt believing there would be great customer service and a shared protective outlook toward the environment.
Seems I was wrong and Volt bikes just want cash and move on to the next punter adding to landfill and caring not one fart
I know others say it’s the battery manufacturers responsibility but it’s volt who choose to install these batteries knowing full well they are not serviceable then using environmental protection as a selling tool. I’d call that dishonest and immoral

 

[Woosh]

My other issue with them and most other manufacturers is, why can’t warranties be transferred with ownership?

it's a decision that each vendor will take for itself, but there are many reasons as to why. If your bike is sold via a dealership, your contract is with the shop where you bought it from, that shop has a contract with the distributor who has a contract with the manufacturer. If you sell your bike to another person, you bring in another party into those contracts.
Let's change the scenario a little, and say that you are the current owner, having bought the bike second hand. Your relationship with the shop where the bike was bought from is undefined. The service history may be missing etc. Now you want to make a warranty claim. Who is going to be responsible for the cost and labour of the replacement?
Regarding the batteries, as I said before, the law is changing, new designs have to comply with current legislation. Batteries must have UN38.3 certification for transport, which is now updated to insist that batteries must be transported using UN G4 cartons with DG9 markings. The UN G4 carton must have the approval number printed on it.
You may not worry too much about removing and putting your battery on the car seat but a manufacturer can't do that. You could say that it is H&S going bonkers but that's the legal situation that we as manufacturers and importers must comply, otherwise, we can be heavily fined.
Let's now assume that you want to send back a faulty battery. Soon, no courier will undertake to transport faulty batteries, they have contracts and insurance and H&S concern for their contractors and staff too. What do manufacturers have to do? they have to logically stop people repairing batteries themselves and blame the original manufacturers if an accident happens.
That's why batteries are now filled with rubberised sealant.

 

[Muddy]

Sorry but the warranty analogy sounds like a smokescreen of small print to hide behind. What difference does a different arse on a seat make?
And I understand legal reauirements about transporting batteries but that too sounds like a ploy to cost customers and lose any responsibility to protect the planet
Big businesses hide behind protective legislation shocker
Can you tell me how many batteries faulty or otherwise have exploded in transport? How do they transport new batteries to customers when selling bikes?
Maybe I’m a bit cynical of big businesses but hiding behind small print and legal blah blah won’t stop all that stuff going to landfill and that is what bugs me

 

[Woosh]

What difference does a different arse on a seat make?

you can, as an individual, take personal risk transporting a battery without packing it in a UN G4 certified box , but a company can't. You can't sue yourself if the battery self ignite in your own car but if it does in somebody else's car, you'll appreciate the difference. That's even before the car insurance company gets involved.

Can you tell me how many batteries faulty or otherwise have exploded in transport?

Not many but the consequences are severe. UPS planes, Boing Dreamliners, electric cars etc.

Maybe I’m a bit cynical of big businesses but hiding behind small print and legal blah blah won’t stop all that stuff going to landfill and that is what bugs me

that's because you don't want to examine opposite views.

 

[Muddy]

I see you like selective quoting, I’m not against opposite views at all. I’m pointing out how silly the idea of marketing green transport then filling landfill with lithium and nasty chemicals is
I’m pointing out the irony of being unable to transport faulty batteries or take any responsibility while shipping new bikes around the globe and the fact they can send a new battery when profit is involved yet hide behind health and safety regs when it might involve some effort or expenditure on their part.
Not sure what your point about Boeing and Dreamliner is, or if it’s relevant but They surely wouldn’t be involved in posting a battery down south for repair
Really lost me with my question about a different arse on the same seat, what has suing myself and cars or insurance got to do with a transferable warranty?
But let’s not get into an argument, I’ve made my points and stand by them. If I’m wrong say why but please don’t ramble on comparing eggs and apples

 

[Woosh]

I see you like selective quoting, I’m not against opposite views at all. I’m pointing out how silly the idea of marketing green transport then filling landfill with lithium and nasty chemicals is

all Lithium batteries need to be compliant with the rohs directive, so cells are not harmful and can be buried with other wastes. The reason they are classified as DG 9 is because they hold a large amount of energy, not because they are chemically dangerous. Lithium itself is not a rare nor harmful element. If you look at the mileage you can get out of an e-bike at over 800 charging cycles, the cost benefit of the e-bike battery is justified, more than cars.
Batteries are high tech devices, you can't just use a soldering iron to replace a cell.
I invite you to look more closely at the argument why batteries are made to be unrepairable before jumping to condemnation.

 

[Muddy]

all Lithium batteries need to be compliant with the rohs directive, so cells are not harmful and can be buried with other wastes. The reason they are classified as DG 9 is because they hold a large amount of energy, not because they are chemically dangerous. Lithium itself is not a rare nor harmful element.

So there are no chemicals or harmful to the environment materials in a bike battery? Cool to know

 

[Muddy]

[QUOTE=. If you look at the mileage you can get out of an e-bike at over 800 charging cycles, the cost benefit of the e-bike battery is justified, more than cars.


And what about the batteries which develop a small problem after a few charge cycles? Especially if they have been sold on? The ones we are expected to just dump, is that justified ?

 

[soundwave]

 

[Woosh]

And what about the batteries which develop a small problem after a few charge cycles?

they should be replaced free of charge under warranty, unless they are accidentally damaged.
the percentage of those cases is very small, The write off is totally justified by increasing reliability. Welding spots are less likely ruptured by shocks and vibrations when the whole pack is sealed,.
When you consider the trade off: throw away a bad pack during the warranty and offer better protection against shocks for future years after the warranty runs out, you can see that sealing the battery gives better customers experience.

 

[Muddy]

Not this customer, so no point continuing going around in a big circle

 

[Muddy]

Amazing how some folk just make sense of it all. He’s grabbing and touching things I wouldn’t even want to stand beside haha

 

[PeterCo]

I have a Volt metro folder on my boat. I managed to snap the key off in the lock so deep that I couldn't remove it. After talking to the really helpful folk at Volt I posted the battery to them and they replaced the two locks and sent it all back really promptly with three new keys.
I know this doesn't solve the OP's issue but I did feel I should rebalance the view of the company.
I've now done a couple of thousand miles over the last four years and it's a really useful tool for me. I've had very little trouble with it.