Do I need brake sensors?

[Az.]

Edit just to clarify it's brake sensor as a clutch...

Finally it all does make sense. I have been wondering what am I missing here

I have never experienced incident like jammed throttle or faulty PAS so I can only imagine in situation like that most dangerous is element of surprise. A moment when bike goes out of control and you try to figure out what is going on.
For sensors to work one has to use brakes so sensors or not bike should stop. Having sensors as clutch should make it easier though and having them installed is a good practice.
...so I am going to install sensors at some point.

 

[Bogmonster666]

Years ago I did have a throttle only hub kit and that did misbehave once in extreme wet weather and wanted to drive me forwards at a junction - had ebrake levers that saved the day. The idea that you could turn off the controller in a split second situation does not sound particularly credible, your natural reaction will be to pull the brake levers in that situation.

Although my current bike has no throttle, it does have a throttle control wire that could short with water ingress in connectors so may still fit ebrakes.

 

[guerney]

I have not done any research, however, and others with more mid drive knowledge may chime in, some bafang systems have a "gear sensor" on the gear cable that deactivates the motor between gear shifts, whether this sensor is both ways ie high & low I have never asked the question but assume it is.

Judging by troubles reported by others using the gear sensor, it's been designed for just my bike lol - works perfectly, turns off motor whenever changing gear and switches on motor again... usually perfect timing (which can't be changed in firmware), except when powering up steep hills in the rain, when it doesn't quite allow enough time by a tad or fraction thereof.

 

[marcinos]

Hi everyone. Thank you for yours response. As I listened to your advices I decide to buy hydraulic brake liver with integrated brake sensor.
I'm going to install throttle but need to replace from thumb to twist one as orginal from kit won't fit to my bike.
Still waiting for parts when all be done I will drop some photos and give my thoughts about first ride.

 

[PC2017]

thumb to twist

I recommend the half twist, most include some rather exceptional handle bar grips, however if you have already ordered a different style or are limited via OEM then this a notice for any others who may be interested.

 

[jh787]

Some interesting work arounds for hydraulic brakes and road bike shifters.
I dismantled a cable lever that is supplied with the tsdz2b and removed the micro switch complete with plug that plugs into the vlcd5.
I drilled a hole into my hydraulic brake lever and installed the switch into the hole and secured with cable ties.
I now only have assistance when I press the micro switch. When I release the switch motor cuts out.
When I installed it I thought it would be the other way around (press switch to cut off motor) because i read somewhere that the switch "makes to brake" but this isn't the case.
I've got used to it very quickly and it works very well.

 

[marcinos]

So I started to fit my kit. Problems popup as I was work goes on but mostly solved. But have a question. As some julet connectors will be totally exposed are they good weatherproof or should I do something extra to waterproof them?

 

[guerney]

So I started to fit my kit. Problems popup as I was work goes on but mostly solved. But have a question. As some julet connectors will be totally exposed are they good weatherproof or should I do something extra to waterproof them?

Because I don't trust waterproofing claims made about products in general, I used 4:1 self-adhesive marine heat shrink plus self-amalgamating rubber tape (in case UV in sunlight and movement breaks down the adhesive inside the heat shrink over time) over nearly all of those connectors. Possibly overkill lol, but I have had zero issues with water ingress, even with the bike submerged above both pedals for 13 seconds. 4:1 gets over even the largest connectors on my kit.

 

[PC2017]

julet connectors

I have had min issues, but I suppose how damp/wet/rain your bike will be/get in any given scenario. The main one that would ingress on my kit in the early days was the 1to4 cable out to controller little pins would snap. Try and orientate your cable joins facing down like the advised motor(hub) installation cable to allow water to drip away (if poss) the main point of failure is normally the PAS as water tends to drip down the cable however a little epoxy or glue in the cable entry or inside should help. I always have a spare PAS on hand but I do use the KT d12l.

that the switch "makes to brake" but this isn't the case.

It's reverse switch closed is on open is off. Brake lever motion.

 

[guerney]

Some interesting work arounds for hydraulic brakes and road bike shifters.
I dismantled a cable lever that is supplied with the tsdz2b and removed the micro switch complete with plug that plugs into the vlcd5.
I drilled a hole into my hydraulic brake lever and installed the switch into the hole and secured with cable ties.
I now only have assistance when I press the micro switch. When I release the switch motor cuts out.
When I installed it I thought it would be the other way around (press switch to cut off motor) because i read somewhere that the switch "makes to brake" but this isn't the case.
I've got used to it very quickly and it works very well.

Will the motor have power cut when it rains? Have you got a pic of this switch? How waterproof is it?

 

[jh787]

Will the motor have power cut when it rains? Have you got a pic of this switch? How waterproof is it?

It's a tiny switch squeezed through a tiny hole with insulation tape wrapped around it.
It's my hand resting place so there's that.
I can't see any water getting into it.
If i want to be extra cautious i could put a tiny bead of sealant around the hole.
It's ugly because I rushed it but it works.
If I'm bored one of the days I may redo it with black heat shrink and/or black insulation tape.

 

[PC2017]

tiny switch

To coin a phrase, you (Maverick) Mav-rigged it... I mav-rigged a 1 by drivetrain on an original 21 speed MTB, best idea I ever had.

 

[marcinos]

Hi so I fit my kit works beautifully of Pas assist from 1 to 5 pulling like a horse but I can't get throttle to work at all no matter what I change in settings. So need help and I have few questions.
Is there a second advance setting menu or I'm thinking about different screen you were talking about here.
My screen is C500 with YO2 on body.
Also on screen where is BSM it shows voltage but I can't change to show any thing different.
Is this screen shows wattage or current in real time?
Any advice?

 

[marcinos]

Forget first question about throttle I bought different one a twist one as I have no space . Try the one from kit and it's works so need to look at wiring later on.

 

[PC2017]

twist one

I think YOSE or as you called it JOSE power, I think still use "lushui", did you purchase the throttle from Y/Jose? - most popular after market is "KT"

 

[marcinos]

Yes Yose sorry. It is lushui bought twist throttle from eBay it was julet connector but female instead of male. Try connecting different ways but no luck. Never know there different types of throttle. I thought it just a connector replacement and they all compatible.

 

[saneagle]

Y
Yeah, I missed that, if throttle gets stuck other than default position, brake sensor is needed

You can put any switch on either of the brake connectors to make an instant cut-off. That's all a brake switch is. You don't have to go to bother of fitting anything to the brake lever, but that's the most convenient place to have it, obviously. also, nearly every bike has a control panel these days that you can switch off if there are any problems, so its not a big deal when your throttle sticks.

 

[saneagle]

How often are people getting a throttle jamming open? Just curious seems like a fault with the throttle and would be a rare occurrence and at that point couldn't you just switch off the ebike. My on/off switch is on the same part as the throttle itself. Seems far more likely you need brake sensors to me with a cadence sensor as the one's I have tried have more lag so there is a delay in stopping pedalling and the motor not powering and you can accelerate the motor stopping by applying a brake lever. If you didn't want to wire up brake sensors you could fit a simple motor cut-off switch somewhere on the handlebars that uses the same brake circuit just in case of emergencies.

Its very easy when you have a full width throttle because you're holding yourself with it , and when you hit a big bump, you can rip it past the stop, then you get permanent 50% throttle.

Thumb throttles can do the same if you drop the bike and the lever catches on something, but it's almost impossible to break one while riding. All other problems apart from water ingress tend to be there before you start the bike, in which case the controller won't give power. That leaves water as the main danger, but I never had anything like that in more than 10 years of riding in all weathers. Maybe it could happen if you leave your bike leaning over in the rain.

I've never used brake sensors in the last ten years. The only time I miss them is when I have to do a very sharp turm back on myself to go from the cycle path up a parallel path to a footbridge over the road. You can't pedal while making the turn because the motor throws you off balance. You need it on maximum power to go up the path to the bridge, which is about 15% and you're approaching up a steep hill already, otherwise I'd have it on level 1 and hit the throttle as soon as I turned.

if you have that lag on your controller when you stop pedalling, get rid of it and get a decent one. Those ones with lag are normally pretty terrible all round, but if you must stick with it, then you need brake sensors.

 

[saneagle]

Hi everyone. Thank you for yours response. As I listened to your advices I decide to buy hydraulic brake liver with integrated brake sensor.
I'm going to install throttle but need to replace from thumb to twist one as orginal from kit won't fit to my bike.
Still waiting for parts when all be done I will drop some photos and give my thoughts about first ride.

Don't fit a full width throttle. they break too easily on a bicycle. They're fine on a scooter or anything where you're not pedalling. In the old days it was all you could get, so that's what I used until I broke three of them in a short time.

There are many types of thumb throttle, and I never found a bike where I couldn't fit one. if you really can't find one that will fit, get a half-width throttle, which is the same as a full width one, except that it's half as long.

 

[PC2017]

half-width throttle

Half twist/width are the best imo, I like my brake sensors, having that instant off allows for more control (or at least the feeling of more control) each to their own I suppose.