Do I need brake sensors?

[marcinos]

Hi I just bought a Jose power 350w rear hub conversion kit.
My bike have hydraulic brakes.
My question is do I need connect brake sensors.
Is this kit will work without brake sensor connected?
And is there any good quality hydraulic brake livers with brake sensor in them. Just like ones from kit but hydraulic.
Thanks.

 

[Bogmonster666]

If you plan to install a throttle you definitely do need brake sensors. I have not tried the Yose kit, suspect that you may be ok if you only use the cadence sensor, but not sure how quickly the motor stops? Others will know.

I don't use brake sensors on my no-throttle tsdz2 bike but the torque sensor quickly stops power to the motor so not an issue. I think sensors can be useful on cadence sensor bikes if trying to perform slow manoeuvres.

You can get magnetic add on sensors to use with your existing hydraulic levers. Not seen any hydraulic levers with built in sensors.

 

[matthewslack]

Hi I just bought a Jose power 350w rear hub conversion kit.
My bike have hydraulic brakes.
My question is do I need connect brake sensors.
Is this kit will work without brake sensor connected?
And is there any good quality hydraulic brake livers with brake sensor in them. Just like ones from kit but hydraulic.
Thanks.

Tektro Auriga on my recumbent has a built in sensor. See image.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

If you plan to install a throttle you definitely do need brake sensors. I have not tried the Yose kit, suspect that you may be ok if you only use the cadence sensor, but not sure how quickly the motor stops? Others will know.

I don't use brake sensors on my no-throttle tsdz2 bike but the torque sensor quickly stops power to the motor so not an issue. I think sensors can be useful on cadence sensor bikes if trying to perform slow manoeuvres.

You can get magnetic add on sensors to use with your existing hydraulic levers. Not seen any hydraulic levers with built in sensors.

I don't think you need brake sensors on many ebikes with throttles but really it is down to how its implemented and how you use it. As throttles give you full control its unlikely you would be activating the throttle while braking and if you only use throttles for hills then I personally don't think you need them. I guess there could be a difference here between thumb throttle and twist throttle, it feels to me a thumb throttle is much safer and unlikely to operate at the wrong time. However if you have a direct drive hub motor with regen then clearly you need them as the regen is operated by them.

I think the greatest requirement for brake sensors is cheaper cadence sensor type ebikes where as soon as the sensor detects cadence rotation it activates the motor at full power and there is some lag to stopping the motor if you stop pedalling. This needs the brake sensors to prevent that lag in an emergency.

It's a difficult one with hydraulic brake levers too as sticking/glueing on magnets and sensors onto existing hydraulic brake levers is not a great option for safety. They can be problematic and could fail (fall off) in an emergency. The dedicated ebike hydraulic brake levers seem a much better option.

 

[Woosh]

you need brake sensors if you fit a throttle, in case the throttle gets jammed open.

 

[jokskot]

If you plan to install a throttle you definitely do need brake sensors. I have not tried the Yose kit, suspect that you may be ok if you only use the cadence sensor, but not sure how quickly the motor stops? Others will know.

I don't use brake sensors on my no-throttle tsdz2 bike but the torque sensor quickly stops power to the motor so not an issue. I think sensors can be useful on cadence sensor bikes if trying to perform slow manoeuvres.

You can get magnetic add on sensors to use with your existing hydraulic levers. Not seen any hydraulic levers with built in sensors.

or these...available at ca. half the Amazon price via AliExpress

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GHJKBJ-Hydraulic-Aluminum-Electric-Accessories/dp/B09CYKYG1K

 

[Nealh]

A wire short caused by moisture can lead to an open throttle scanerio, one can use the brakes to try and stop the motor but you will likely blow the controller .

I stopped fitting the throttle as I found little use for them but on two occasions e- brakes saved the day when I one fitted. .
1. On the old Oxydrive /DAS kit , moisture got in to the julet and tracks between two pins cause a short and open throttle .
2. With a KT the signal wire broke in my loom and depending how the loom moved with the steering an intemittent contact would send the bike lurching forward if the PAS wasn't in zero mode.

 

[Bogmonster666]

I guess it is all a risk assessment at the end of the day. I would tend towards a cautious approach and may yet install the e-brake levers I have on my no-throttle bike for the reasons @Nealh outlines. Some folks appear happy to cycle about without any functional brakes at all so there is a broad spectrum of views...

 

[afzal]

you need brake sensors if you fit a throttle, in case the throttle gets jammed open.

A wire short caused by moisture can lead to an open throttle scanerio, one can use the brakes to try and stop the motor but you will likely blow the controller .

I stopped fitting the throttle as I found little use for them but on two occasions e- brakes saved the day when I one fitted. .
1. On the old Oxydrive /DAS kit , moisture got in to the julet and tracks between two pins cause a short and open throttle .
2. With a KT the signal wire broke in my loom and depending how the loom moved with the steering an intemittent contact would send the bike lurching forward if the PAS wasn't in zero mode.

Connecting a pull down (say 10K) b/n signal & ground on the PCB can prevent open throttle condition. AFAIK, the only controller having it is VESC based spintend

 

[afzal]

I don't use brake sensors on my no-throttle tsdz2 bike but the torque sensor quickly stops power to the motor so not an issue.

Even in the highest PAS level, does TSDZ2 stop without any delay ?

 

[Woosh]

Connecting a pull down (say 10K) b/n signal & ground on the PCB can prevent open throttle condition. AFAIK, the only controller having it is VESC based spintend

you need the brake sensors to stop the bike when the throttle gets stuck while still actively engaged.

 

[Woosh]

Even in the highest PAS level, does TSDZ2 stop without any delay ?

yes. Where the TSDZ2 can be improved is a simple way for the user to increase assist ratio temporarily (pedal power to motor power) or change to cadence sensor when climbing hills.

 

[Cadence]

As luck would have it, whilst riding this afternoon the throttle on my Yosepower kit developed a fault. It would not fully return to the off position without giving it a flick with a finger. I think it is the internal spring.
Fortunately I had fitted a cut-off switch to the rear brake, so it was no drama - just returned home without using the throttle, but I'm so glad I fitted that switch!
An email has just gone off to Yosepower with a video, requesting a replacement.

 

[afzal]

Y

you need the brake sensors to stop the bike when the throttle gets stuck while still actively engaged.

Yeah, I missed that, if throttle gets stuck other than default position, brake sensor is needed

 

[AGS]

Yeah, I’ve had a couple of whiskey throttle moments without brake cut offs and it’s not fun.

 

[AndyBike]

Simple solution - Don't have a throttle. Then you don't need sensors so have also saved yourself money.

Besides, the act pedaling is good for the joints.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

How often are people getting a throttle jamming open? Just curious seems like a fault with the throttle and would be a rare occurrence and at that point couldn't you just switch off the ebike. My on/off switch is on the same part as the throttle itself. Seems far more likely you need brake sensors to me with a cadence sensor as the one's I have tried have more lag so there is a delay in stopping pedalling and the motor not powering and you can accelerate the motor stopping by applying a brake lever. If you didn't want to wire up brake sensors you could fit a simple motor cut-off switch somewhere on the handlebars that uses the same brake circuit just in case of emergencies.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Just curious seems like a fault with the throttle and would be a rare occurrence and at that point couldn't you just switch off the ebike.

Well at least some of the throttles are very cheap and dont enspire you that they would be long term reliable.

I can imagine the fun as you try to switch off the ebike as your speeding across a busy junction since the bike took off whilst you were waiting at the lights.

 

[Woosh]

How often are people getting a throttle jamming open? Just curious seems like a fault with the throttle and would be a rare occurrence and at that point couldn't you just switch off the ebike

yes, you can but imagine the difficulty in having to find the on/off switch in less than a second before you hit something or someone.
The following scenario happens a lot with kits. They are usually supplied with full, permanently active throttle.
Imagine your throttle has become sticky lately and you are pushing the bike while the power is on.
Then your thumb or hand hits the throttle by mistake.

 

[guerney]

How often are people getting a throttle jamming open?

I don't use a throttle, but the last time I tried it, it wouldn't turn off - moisture ingress I think, because I hadn't waterproofed the unused throttle connector (just used the connector caps provided with the kits). If I recall correctly, @jimriley (also a BBS01B) reported similar and had to replace his, because it wouldn't switch off.

I can imagine the fun as you try to switch off the ebike as your speeding across a busy junction since the bike took off whilst you were waiting at the lights.

Then your thumb or hand hits the throttle by mistake.

I really didn't like the throttle because it was all too easy to use it. On more than one occasion, I could have ended up as street pizza at junctions, if it were not for brake sensor cutoff/ebrake.

If the firmware of the cadence sensored BBS01B isn't set up to very rapidly reduce power when pedalling stops, not having ebrakes IMHO is dangerous.