Do any cadence sensored hub motor controllers activate pedal assist when ghost pedalling backwards as well as forwards?

[Nealh]

Problem is a lot of folks think an EAPC is the answer to regain their younger riding days, alot of these riders are occasional fair weather riders and only ride when it is 15 -20c or maybe go out once in blue moon.
These riders have no road confidence or great bike control yet want a silver bullet answer to say they are cyclists.

Most fit or regular riders do not need a easy start mode with a good acting PAS .

 

[Woosh]

Torque sensors start the motor very quickly, but you still can't start up a steep hill. Pedalling backwards, likewise won't help. The only reason throttles help is because you can keep your legs down to balance while the bike gathers speed enough to let the gyroscopic effect of the wheels to take effect.

I've tried this way a couple of times, not fantastic but it seems to work well enough. You press and hold the - button to start the bike. When the bike moves, start pedalling. When the bike moves fast enough, release the - button.
Torque sensors work well too with this maneuver.

 

[guerney]

Torque sensors start the motor very quickly, but you still can't start up a steep hill. Pedalling backwards, likewise won't help. The only reason throttles help is because you can keep your legs down to balance while the bike gathers speed enough to let the gyroscopic effect of the wheels to take effect.

The easiest way to do a throttle-type start up with a bike that only has cadence sensor pedal assist is to spoof the signal with one of these, as I've said many times before. All you need is a switch on the 5v wire to activate it. I have one and tested it. It works. It can also be used to spoof the speed signal.

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If you had to backpedal to activate that (as an option, if the button or throttle was pressed within a few seconds of backpedal detection), when cops pressed it nothing would happen. Otherwise, could they claim it was in effect a throttle? Limited to 6kph or not, cops keep stating all throttles are illegal. Second PAS disc to detect backpedalling for that system? Or "Start! Damned bike!" voice command?

 

[afzal]

Second PAS disc to detect backpedalling for that system?

Along w/ a SPDT start up switch connected to both PAS. With that scheme some circuit gymnastics would be required to take EN15194 for a ride!

 

[saneagle]

If you had to backpedal to activate that (as an option, if the button or throttle was pressed within a few seconds of backpedal detection), when cops pressed it nothing would happen. Otherwise, could they claim it was in effect a throttle? Limited to 6kph or not, cops keep stating all throttles are illegal. Second PAS disc to detect backpedalling for that system?

Cops wouldn't be interested unless you're going through town without pedalling, or they might get interested if you had a massive red button on your handlebars with a label that says "Power without pedalling".

If it still worries you, add a delay timer that switches off after 3 or 5 seconds by adding three components that cost about £1. In this example, replace the LED panel with the pulse module, and instead of the battery pack, connect the red and black wires to the PAS ones. Put a press and hold button on the red PAS wire. When you hold down the button, the PAS signal will be spoofed for whatever time you set the timer to. You can adjust the time to make it accelerate you with full power up to 6km/hr, then it's legal:

 

[chris_n]

All I have owned are torque sensor bikes, to say you can't start on a steep hill is complete rubbish and living where I do I get plenty of practice.
Bikes with a Yamaha motor develop power just by applying pressure to the pedal without any rotation, sure the power goes up when you do rotate but it is a true zero rpm start.
Bosch and Shimano both start with very small amounts of movement, probably less than 30⁰.
In either case being in some sort of suitable gear helps.
The bigger problem is actually controlling the power and reducing wheel spin on loose surfaces which is one of the reasons I always use a dropper post.

 

[Ghost1951]

Cops wouldn't be interested unless you're going through town without pedalling, or they might get interested if you had a massive red button on your handlebars with a label that says "Power without pedalling".

If it still worries you, add a delay timer that switches off after 3 or 5 seconds by adding three components that cost about £1. In this example, replace the LED panel with the pulse module, and instead of the battery pack, connect the red and black wires to the PAS ones. Put a press and hold button on the red PAS wire. When you hold down the button, the PAS signal will be spoofed for whatever time you set the timer to. You can adjust the time to make it accelerate you with full power up to 6km/hr, then it's legal:

If you want to make your spoofing secret, you could add a magnetic switch to enable or disable the pulsing circuit. Place the magnet on the switch and the spoofing operates. Remove the magnet on being stopped or questioned and put it in your pocket (VERY unlikely unless you are riding like an idiot going uphill with no pedalling ) and there is no way Mr Plod will know what you did with the spoofed 555 timer pulsing.

 

[guerney]

All I have owned are torque sensor bikes, to say you can't start on a steep hill is complete rubbish and living where I do I get plenty of practice.
Bikes with a Yamaha motor develop power just by applying pressure to the pedal without any rotation, sure the power goes up when you do rotate but it is a true zero rpm start.
Bosch and Shimano both start with very small amounts of movement, probably less than 30⁰.
In either case being in some sort of suitable gear helps.
The bigger problem is actually controlling the power and reducing wheel spin on loose surfaces which is one of the reasons I always use a dropper post.

The cadence sensing 36V BBS01B on my 20" wheeled Dahon Helios folding bike has recently been set to commence assistance at ((360⁰/24 pulses per revolution) x 2) = 30⁰, and the controller amperage limit has recently been raised from 15A to 2A - there's a sometimes problematic steep start at an intersection with traffic lights several miles away, which I'll get around to trying with the new settings. It's was fine starting from a dead stop at 15A, if I remembered to gear down beforehand to 37.12 gear inches (my gear 2 of 8), and I bet I can start with a higher gear now with 20A... ideally but highly unlikely 74.29 gear inches (my gear six of eight), which is my new usual cruising gear (used to be 5 at 15A). It's also set for slow onset of power, so there's no wheel spin on road... might be a different outcome on loose surfaces, I haven't tried. Starting at those uphill lights was dead easy when I had a throttle, even when towing a heavily laden bike trailer.

 

[guerney]

If you want to make your spoofing secret, you could add a magnetic switch to enable or disable the pulsing circuit. Place the magnet on the switch and the spoofing operates. Remove the magnet on being stopped or questioned and put it in your pocket (VERY unlikely unless you are riding like an idiot going uphill with no pedalling ) and there is no way Mr Plod will know what you did with the spoofed 555 timer pulsing.

You could have a hidden throttle operated by moving a strong magnet with your thumb up/down a short and thin curved steel surface next to the handgrip? Throw the magnet away when plod stops you saying "Ello ello ello" etc. Further confound plod by demonstrating that it's a press on/off switch for a headlight? "It's a light switch orificer!"