Ditch-the-Swytch bike kit

[rumsey68]

I have a pro gen 2 swytch kit on my 20" wheeled folder. Really frustrated by number of faults on my kit and commitment to customer service and support (which ranges from adequate to very poor and robotic).

(More info here: http://www.chrisrumsey.co.uk/swytchbike/ )

Looking to ditch-the-Swytch and get a better supported quality replacement.

What I have liked about Swytch gen 2 kit is weight. I have reasonably lightweight weight 20" wheeled "Vello Alfine" folding bike. With the extra weight of Swytch kit it didn't turn it into a heavy weight beast. It's still a bike which I is practical to fold, take on the bus or carry up a set of steps.

That's my bug bear with a lot of electric bikes. To my mind they are not really bikes any more. They are so heavy that are not as practical as their non-electric predecessors.

I also have a year 2000 a semi recumbent bike (called "Bike-E" - "E" did not stand for electric I think I was supposed to be E for evolution ). It has 16" front wheel 20" back wheel. I am interested to electrify this, while trying not to add to much extra weight.

 

[Az.]

Help! - Building up from Swytch kit

Hello fellow ebikers, I've been posting few questions around Swytch kit (bought Oct 2020, second generation, PRO model) and how to upgrade the build using more widely available components. Well, the time is nearly here to ditch the Swytch kit. The hub motor judders and whines very loudly...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

I have a pro gen 2 swytch kit on my 20" wheeled folder. Really frustrated by number of faults on my kit and commitment to customer service and support (which ranges from adequate to very poor and robotic).

(More info here: http://www.chrisrumsey.co.uk/swytchbike/ )

Looking to ditch-the-Swytch and get a better supported quality replacement.

What I have liked about Swytch gen 2 kit is weight. I have reasonably lightweight weight 20" wheeled "Vello Alfine" folding bike. With the extra weight of Swytch kit it didn't turn it into a heavy weight beast. It's still a bike which I is practical to fold, take on the bus or carry up a set of steps.

That's my bug bear with a lot of electric bikes. To my mind they are not really bikes any more. They are so heavy that are not as practical as their non-electric predecessors.

I also have a year 2000 a semi recumbent bike (called "Bike-E" - "E" did not stand for electric I think I was supposed to be E for evolution ). It has 16" front wheel 20" back wheel. I am interested to electrify this, while trying not to add to much extra weight.

The motor is fine. The controller and its connection system is shite. If you get normal ebike parts, you don't really need any customer support. There's not much to go wrong.

Use a KT controller, which costs about £80 with the LCD. It'll make your bike really nice to ride. You can keep the battery in its bag if you want. It'll work with any controller, or you can stick any 36v battery you want in the same bag or a similar one.

A 16" wheel or a 20" one needs a 328 rpm motor. If it's still lightweight you want, a few sellers, including Woosh, have Brompton kits.
Kirbebike EZ Rider Conversion Kit For Brompton Electric Kit- Kirbebike
Woosh hub kits | Electric Bike Conversion Kits from Woosh (wooshbikes.co.uk)

 

[peterjd]

Yes weight (and distribution) at a reasonable cost is in my opinion the main deterrent to switching to electric from a previous experience of lightweight unassisted cycling. I am quite pleased now with my weight reduced and rebalanced Mk 1 kit on a 700c light steel framed bike. Probably didn't need to buy the Decathlon electric (500e) which I think is good for the cost but still quite heavy. The Swytch wheel is remarkably quiet in my experience. Peter

 

[Stevie1963]

Sorry to say this is my experience of Swytch. I developed the same fault out of warranty and they wanted me to upgrade to a new style battery as my controller had failed or do they say. Likewise I have lost confidence in this company and wont be spending anymore cash with them

 

[Stevie1963]

Does snyone know of a compatible controlled for a 1st addition battery?

 

[saneagle]

Does snyone know of a compatible controlled for a 1st addition battery?

Any brushless controller for sensored motors should workas long as you don't have the Xiongda motor that I think was fitted to some of the very early ones. You need 36v and around 15 amps. KT is the best, but it's £80 with the LCD. Your battery might struggle with 15 amps if it's a bit old, so you might want to think about changing that too to one that gives a bit of range. The KT controller has adjustable current, so you can turn it down if your battery struggles, Cheap controllers normally have fixed current, which is a bit of a strain on the battery.

 

[Stevie1963]

Thank you for your informative reply, I am new to this so still learning

 

[thelarkbox]

Thank you for your informative reply, I am new to this so still learning

thats how everyone starts

 

[mta102]

Just got a kt controller with an lcd9 display to replace my Swytch Brompton kit. Using the Swytch motor. What's everyone using for the P1 setting on the controller? It is based on the number of magnets multiplied by the gear reduction ratio, and I have no idea of these parameters for the Swytch Brompton motor. Please help? .

 

[saneagle]

Just got a kt controller with an lcd9 display to replace my Swytch Brompton kit. Using the Swytch motor. What's everyone using for the P1 setting on the controller? It is based on the number of magnets multiplied by the gear reduction ratio, and I have no idea of these parameters for the Swytch Brompton motor. Please help? .

Leave it on defaults for now, It's not important. It's used for calculating the speed of the motor for the cut-off speed. You can adjust it to suit when you have everything working.

 

[Nealh]

P1 192 for the swytch AKM95, a P1 widely out will cut out at 10/11 mph.
But as d8veh has said make sure everything works then one can mess with settings.

 

[Bikes4two]

• Funnily enough I'm just putting a redundant Swytch wheel/motor (thank you ebay and @cheesemonkey )into an old road bike I've not ridden for years and I took my initial settings for the KT controller from a post HERE which had P1 as 96 which led to the motor cutting out at 12 kph.
• I could have just doubled that figure but I took a more methodical approach and used the ‘unplug the motor, short out any two of the phase connections to the motor and count the ‘cogging’ (lumpy/jumpy/notchy feeling)’ and came up with a figure around 190 (some of the cogging steps were weaker than others, so a bit of estimating in some places). BTW, exactly how does the cogging occur given there's no power involved just the shorting of two connections?
  
  Entering 192 into P1 saw the problem resolved with the cut-out speed around 25kph (speed to be confirmed by comparison against a good old wired cycle computer when I can find one in my junk box) and this does indeed show that within the world of Swytch/Aikema 100SX there are magnet/gearing variations.

While I have your attention dear readers, a couple of questions please:
(a) if having adjusted P1 to get the correct cut-off speed (25 kph in my case) and the KT displayed speed is slightly out, what is the best way to correct this? Do you 'fine tune' P1 to get the correct speed and accept the change in cut-off speed, and/or faff with the tyre size setting for larger discrepancies?
(b) - the odometer/trip distance: how is the distance travelled determined?

Thank you all.

PS - the donor bike uses Campag Power Torque bearings in the bottom bracket (Similar in size/appearance to Shimano Hollowtech 2) so I opted for a Kingmeter 12 magnet PAS sensor to fit on the chainring size and with C1=7 it all works fine. Getting the magnets to fit a double 34/50 chainring is another post for another time but suffice it to say my 3D printer came in handy .

 

[Nealh]

I compare display reading with a GPS and then adjust the P1 if needed so they match very closely..

 

[saneagle]

• BTW, exactly how does the cogging occur given there's no power involved just the shorting of two connections?

There is power involved! When you turn a motor, it becomes a generator. It generates power in the opposite direction to what you give it by turning it. You can use that generated power to do anything, like charge a battery, work a light, etc. When you connect the motor wires together, it goes back into the motor to try and turn it the opposite way to you, so it's like a brake.

When I was a schoolteacher, I used to connect two DC motors by a wire and get the kids to turn one, which made the other turn, then I would hold one to prevent it from turning, and asked the kids to try to turn the other, which they couldn't. It's like magic.

 

[matthewslack]

Some small wind turbines stuck inaccessibly high up a pole use this technique as a brake to avoid unwanted rotation during maintenance and high winds.

 

[xla99]

Hi there,

Me too I'm fed up with Switch AI support and I'm considering to upgrade my old gen2 kit with KT components. However, there are so much information about it in that forum that I'm getting lost.

My few main questions would :

1. Do I need to order a KT 500W Controller - 36/48V 22A only or 17A would be enough (I'm a complete electric newbie)
2. Could I use the Swytch left side 12 PAS sensor with the KT controller ? (plug and play, no tinkering)
3. Would I have to use one of the two sets of parameters presented in that post and pif, it's working or would it be difficult to properly set it up ?

I like the idea to go to a DIY solution but I've played enough with my Swytch kit, trying to keep it alive and constantly wondering why it's not working properly so I would like the easiest set up to install.

Thanks.

 

[thelarkbox]

Hi my take

1)a 17a controller should provide ample improvements in power output over the original 15a? job. a 22a controller would probably require you to limit use to pas levels 1-4, leaving 5 for the extra boost when needed only as to not overheat the motor? But if you have steep climbs that need that extra oomph in short bursts then it is an option.

2) swytch pas connector plug is what format?

julet or jst are the 2 options for kt controllers if you need to plug n play the connection if you cant buy the controller with the matching connector. buying a new pas that will plug in is your only non cable hack solution.
If plugs are compatible its worth a punt trying the original sensor. - configuring the pas will be required, it might be easier to just cycle through each option and test with a pedal push than try to understand the chenglish in that aspect of the pdf manual..

3) chances are the controller system will work with the throttle and brake cut offs out of the box with no parameter changes, to enable pas use the pas sensor will need configuring (above comments)

But if you have issues/problems just start a thread in here..

 

[eas2lv]

1. Could I use the Swytch left side 12 PAS sensor with the KT controller ? (plug and play, no tinkering)

The whole idea of moving to KT is the "tinkerability". If you want no tinkering, buy a manufactured ebike. That said, Swytch wheel + battery + PAS can be made to work with a KT controller and compatible display.

 

[saneagle]

Hi there,

Me too I'm fed up with Switch AI support and I'm considering to upgrade my old gen2 kit with KT components. However, there are so much information about it in that forum that I'm getting lost.

My few main questions would :

1. Do I need to order a KT 500W Controller - 36/48V 22A only or 17A would be enough (I'm a complete electric newbie)
2. Could I use the Swytch left side 12 PAS sensor with the KT controller ? (plug and play, no tinkering)
3. Would I have to use one of the two sets of parameters presented in that post and pif, it's working or would it be difficult to properly set it up ?

I like the idea to go to a DIY solution but I've played enough with my Swytch kit, trying to keep it alive and constantly wondering why it's not working properly so I would like the easiest set up to install.

Thanks.

You choose the controller you need. KT comes in 14A, 17A, 20A and 22A. Your motor can handle maybe 17A at 36v and 14A at 48v. The Swytch controller is 36v 12A IIRC. If you were happy with that, then get the 14A KT one. Only go to 17A if you were struggling on hills.

The KT controller should work with your pedal sensor if you set the parameter for it correctly and wire it correctly. To save all the trouble, it might be an idea to get the complete kit from Topbikekit that includes throttle, PAS, brakes, speed sensor and LCD with the correct connectors correctly wired. The problems people get with pedal sensors are:
- Different sensors have the same connector, but different wiring sequence to the controller.
- 12 magnet sensors are normally handed, so only work on one side of the bike (not a problem for yours, as it'salready working)
- Incorrect setting parameters
- Magnet disc fitted inverted (not a problem with yours, as it'salready working)

When you permutate all those issues, there are a huge number of possibilities to get things wrong, and when people come on here for help, everybody is shouting particular possibilities from those permutations so the victim has no idea which direction to go, and they start jumping from one to the other, then give up, instead of eliminating possibilities in a methodical manner until the solution presents itself.