Disregarding UK pedelec laws

Having followed postings on here for a month or 2 I get the impression that there seems to be a general disregard for the UK ebike laws regarding maximum assisted speed and motor power, I wonder if those who also drive cars have the same disregard for speeding and drink driving whilst driving their cars?

Or is it a case of it's OK to break UK laws because you can get away with it most of the time?

The speed cutoff is 15.5 mph. Adjusting that cutoff can hardly be equated with drink driving.

 

Do I speed in my car? Yes, when it's safe to do so. But not by a lot. Like most, I'll cruise at 80 on the motorway. My bike can reach 18.5 mph on the motor, when it's safe to do so. I'm still often overtaken by racing bikes that are easily doing 40 mph. They have no cutoff. Ebikers that are ultra fit can take their ebikes to as fast as they can on leg power alone. 20 mph or slightly less and no-one bats an eyelid.

The speed cutoff is 15.5 mph. Adjusting that cutoff can hardly be equated with drink driving.

It can, they are both breaking the law. Or is it OK to break laws you don't agree with?

My bike can reach 18.5 mph on the motor, when it's safe to do so. I'm still often overtaken by racing bikes that are easily doing 40 mph.

But you are breaking the law and the racing bike riders aren't, can you not see the difference?

But you are breaking the law and the racing bike riders aren't, can you not see the difference?

 

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/bosch-ebike-tuning-dongle

 

the biggest uk haibike importer says fook you so what you going to do about it 90% of all ebikes sold are made from kits from china so amps and speed limits can be changed via the lcd all are non uk road legal.

It can, they are both breaking the law. Or is it OK to break laws you don't agree with?

 

In that case you may as well equate going over the cutoff with murder. Let's keep it to just speeding shall we?

 

But you are breaking the law and the racing bike riders aren't, can you not see the difference?

 

Yes I can. It's around 20 mph faster than I am.

Edited April 26, 20196 yr by LeighPing

It can, they are both breaking the law. Or is it OK to break laws you don't agree with?

adjusting the cut off and drink driving are completely different, if they were the same the penalties would be the same.

I would say that the majority of folk on here, myself included, are happy to stay within the laws but for those who don't, it's their choice and they are prepared to take the consequences if caught. Bad behaviour off road and on road by even a small number of ebikers including legal ones worries me far more as it could easily result in a backlash against ebikeing in general.

Dave.

Human nature comes in to play, laws/rules are there to be broken.

 

No one is queaky clean, one way or another each of us during our lives will have broken some punitive rule or law.

 

I do every day in one way or another, riding on path, occasionally going over the speed limit by 1 or 2 mph, forgetting to wear a seat belt etc ,etc. I suppose really I'm a very naughty person and the key should have been thrown away many years ago.

Or is it OK to break laws you don't agree with?

I think it is (sort of) OK, as long as you are safe and considerate (as others have stressed). I regularly ride on footpaths when there are no pedestrians trying to use them, and the wrong way up a 20 metre section of one-way (stopping on the pavement if there is a car) to save an extra 1/2 mile. I try very hard to keep to 20/30 mph speed limits (practically the only time I use cruise control), but often drive near 80mph on motorways.

 

I've seen many more incidents (even allowing for the ratio of riders) of bad regular bike riding than of bad ebike riding.

I think it is (sort of) OK, as long as you are safe and considerate (as others have stressed). I regularly ride on footpaths when there are no pedestrians trying to use them, and the wrong way up a 20 metre section of one-way (stopping on the pavement if there is a car) to save an extra 1/2 mile. I try very hard to keep to 20/30 mph speed limits (practically the only time I use cruise control), but often drive near 80mph on motorways.

 

I've seen many more incidents (even allowing for the ratio of riders) of bad regular bike riding than of bad ebike riding.

 

 

 

Blimey [mention=19726]sjpt[/mention] after reading your post it seems that you're a bigger rebel than [mention=11305]soundwave[/mention] !

Blimey [mention=19726]sjpt[/mention] after reading your post it seems that you're a bigger rebel than [mention=11305]soundwave[/mention] !

 

But he only drives at 80mph on motorways.

 

From the 1990s to the start of the current decade I travelled the 140 mile trip to my brother's in Dorset several times a year. Every trip down was in just under 2 hours, an average of 70mph. Less than half the distance was motorways or dual carriageways and much of the rest was country lanes often limited to 40 mph or less. Running at around 100 on the three motorway sections pushed the average up, but the other roads had to be driven at well over limits.

 

The secret was setting out at around 4.30 am, never later than 5 am, the nicest time to drive on our roads when they are quite quiet and the only others around are similarly minded and often drive the same way.

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You can't equate riding an illegal electric bike with motoring offences like drunk driving or speeding. Loads of peopke are killed when people commit those driving offences, but there isn't a single case on record of someone being kilked by an illegal electric bike in this country.

You can't equate riding an illegal electric bike with motoring offences like drunk driving or speeding. Loads of people are killed when people commit those driving offences, but there isn't a single case on record of someone being killed by an illegal electric bike in this country.

 

In my opinion, there's more of a case for banning mobile phones being used by pedestrians (and cyclists). Or for fining their use whilst walking or riding along. As you would with a car driver. Having a peaceful, safe bike ride was a nightmare when they decided to infect our local country park with Pokemon hunters!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-arQB74UfbM

there isn't a single case on record of someone being killed by an illegal electric bike in this country.

 

One of our West Country members died when riding one. He started to suffer a heart attack when out riding, fell off and subsequently died. Not the sort of road accident you had in mind though and the only death on a pedelec that we know of.

 

His wife kindly advised us of the accident and it's true circumstances.

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You can't equate riding an illegal electric bike with motoring offences like drunk driving or speeding. Loads of peopke are killed when people commit those driving offences, but there isn't a single case on record of someone being kilked by an illegal electric bike in this country.

So, speeding when driving a car is a BAD THING but speeding on an illegal ebike is OK. Interesting thought.

 

What about speeding on a motorbike, is that a bad thing or is it OK?

Speeding on a motorbike is pretty much equivalent to speeding in a car ... unless the motorbike makes more noise in which case it is much worse (whether speeding or not).

I think the OP is winding us up. I don't suppose he's ever taken a pencil from school or lit a garden fire before dusk.

The worst offence I ever committed was to forget a wedding anniversary. Now that is dangerous.

Speeding on a motorbike is pretty much equivalent to speeding in a car ... unless the motorbike makes more noise in which case it is much worse (whether speeding or not).

Ah, I see now, speeding on an illegal ebike is OK because its quiet.

 

How about speeding in a nice quiet electric car, is that OK?

Ah, I see now, speeding on an illegal ebike is OK because its quiet.

 

How about speeding in a nice quiet electric car, is that OK?

All OK, as long as the speeding is also safe and considerate. Noisy motor bikes (or noisy motor cars, noisy leaf blowers, or if they exist, noisy electric bikes) are never considerate regardless of speed.

 

Maybe noisy leaf blowers are worst; their speed is so low that the noise persists longer.

So, speeding when driving a car is a BAD THING but speeding on an illegal ebike is OK. Interesting thought.

 

What about speeding on a motorbike, is that a bad thing or is it OK?

One kills people, the other doesn't. That seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Speeding on a motorbike kills some people, but not as many as cars, so if you want an order of preference.

1. Speeding on an electric bike

2. Speeding on a motorbike

3. Speeding in a car

4. Speeding in a truck or bus.

 

As Leighping says, more pedestrians have been killed when using their mobile phones than by illegal electric bikes. Are you on the phone forum ranting about that?

It is hard to respect laws which are widely regarded as being arbitrary and ill thought out. Such laws bring the whole legal framework into disrespect and lead to conversations such as those above : if I can break this law with impunity why shouldn't I break that one too. The pedelec laws are further undermined by the fairly frequent and apparently random changes that have been made over the last several years.

 

An example is the throttle thing : originally twist-and-go throttles were encouraged as a way of helping disabled people get into cycling. Then they were banned. Now they are back, but only on one specific bike model which has been through an expensive approvals procedure. This is clearly a daft situation.

 

Another example is the maximum 250W to be legal part, when this depends entirely on what the motor manufacturer decides to mark on the side of their motors. Anyone who has looked at the specifications knows that almost all "legal" setups can provide at least double and often treble the "legal" power until battery sag spoils the fun.

 

It won't get sorted out whilst we have governments (any party) obsessed with brexit and other tribal matters, so we'll have to muddle through as best we can.

but only on one specific bike model

If you are referring to the recent posts by Whisper, I think that is just 'one specific bike'; not even 'one specific bike model'

I smell a troll

It is hard to respect laws which are widely regarded as being arbitrary and ill thought out.

 

They are far from being ill thought out and almost identical law is in force in most of the pedelec world, from Europe eastwards through to Australia. The carefully thought out basis is that they must remain bicycles to be not considered motor vehicles. It follows that progress is by pedalling, whether rider or motor power is in use. It also follows that they should be restricted when powered to typical cycling speeds, and worldwide that is typically below 25 kph (15.5 mph).

 

The pedelec laws are further undermined by the fairly frequent and apparently random changes that have been made over the last several years.

 

This is untrue, indeed we once had to wait 13 years for a simple correction. There's only the 1983 EAPC regulations and the 2015 amendments to that, so at 32 years apart, hardly frequent changes!

 

An example is the throttle thing : originally twist-and-go throttles were encouraged as a way of helping disabled people get into cycling. Then they were banned.

 

Again completely untrue. Twist and Go throttles were never at any time encouraged for anyone. The only reason we used to have throttles is that the 1983 EAPC regulation was badly drafted in not having any prescribed way of applying power.

 

That meant in the absence of law, any method could be used, so the Chinese used the cheap and easy way of fitting throttles. E-bikes from European countries, Japan and Taiwan didn't have throttles and were pedelecs.

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I have a restricted pedelec and commute into work mainly off road. For off road use/cycle paths 15mph is fast enough.

 

But if you do find yourself on a narrow road in traffic flow your options are to basically hold up all the traffic at 15mph, hop onto pavements or hang in the gutter and weave in and out of parked cars...none of these are very safe.

It is actually much safer to go with the speed of the traffic flow at say 20-25 mph in typical commuter traffic. And on a road (as opposed to a pavemnt or a cycle path) a cyclist is by the most vulnerable and least dangerous thing on it.

 

So whilst I wouldn't personally derestrict my bike, I find it hard to get upset about people who do it for road commuting.

Ethically a bad law can be ignored if it actually makes society less safe (assuming you follow consequentilist ethics which most of us do nowadays).

 

Speeding is an intresting comparison because there is usually a de facto 10% margin on faster roads.

Is someone who drives at 75mph on an empty motorway really committing a moral wrong?