Help! Disposal or sale for spares/repairs?
- Thread starter hairyneville
- Start date
I live near Gatwick and ride to the Surrey Hills on and off road and use rear hub drive bikes now, I did a have a Bafang BBS mid drive kit but it has let me down a few times. For hills a good 201rpm hub with 40Nm torque bike will do the same job that a 80Nm mid drive will do.
One of my rides is 160km and takes me from home to Surrey Hills then down to the Seaside before traversing the S/Downs the other side of DB towards J&J before heading home, so hubs are very capable.
Between DB to Cissbury and beyond there are not many rough steep tracks/bridleways that I haven't covered with my hub bikes on the S/Downs.
One of my rides is 160km and takes me from home to Surrey Hills then down to the Seaside before traversing the S/Downs the other side of DB towards J&J before heading home, so hubs are very capable.
Between DB to Cissbury and beyond there are not many rough steep tracks/bridleways that I haven't covered with my hub bikes on the S/Downs.
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Nealh - That's an impressive route! The bike shop owner who recommended the Kalkhoff really had a downer on hub drives. Given the quality of his recommendations I should just forget everything he told me!
Just in case you're wondering why I'm considering a folding e-bike for a 2 mile ride (4 mile round trip)... I'm a gardener, and from experience I know that even a relatively gentle (though long...) slope is a slope too far after a day of hard physical work (especially at the end of the week)! After the hill there's a long road between open playing fields which is always a wind trap as well. Or that's my excuse anyway...
Just in case you're wondering why I'm considering a folding e-bike for a 2 mile ride (4 mile round trip)... I'm a gardener, and from experience I know that even a relatively gentle (though long...) slope is a slope too far after a day of hard physical work (especially at the end of the week)! After the hill there's a long road between open playing fields which is always a wind trap as well. Or that's my excuse anyway...
Good point.
COO (Cost of ownership) is IMHO less with hub bikes, plus the initial cost is less.
As a second bike, I bought a very cheap Chinese rear hub bike some years ago and although the guarantee is not that good, the bike was under 1000 UK Pounds, and included 2 batteries, delivery, customs etc., but I am a dyed in the wool DIYer.
But I would not recommend it for anyone who is not! Actually, any e-biker must learn to maintain his bike, unless he is really well off!
I have had now two rear hub e-bikes, and both have more than earned their keep!
Reading about the way some people have been "caught" with high prices and basically no guarantee or support, means that my cheapo with no guarantee, is not as negative as it first appears.....
Also, I have kept away from mid drive bikes, because all the ones I have seen or read about, have both the motor torque and the rider's efforts, all through the same chain. A drive shaft model with no chain, might be better, guessing only! And does one exist at a reasonable price?
That to me as a retired engineer is the biggest obvious failure, though replacing a chain more often is one thing, motors being defective before 1500 miles is another!!
Then there is the new price of such bikes!
Being also fluent in German, I read all the complaints I found online in Germany, about Bosch mid drives, especially the early ones with plastic gears - UGH!
(I do not know if the current motors also have plastic in them or not, as I quickly lost interest in such motor systems!)
I was interested initially because it was obviously more comfortable due to the revolutions of the pedals were much reduced in mid motors, in comparison to hub drive, and I initially wanted a fast bike, that was until I found out that they are totally illegal in most countries anyway!
regards
Andy
How sad, you did not deserve this.....Andy - Well, there's my dad, but he hasn't got the money to do it either, what with having his unemployed son back at home.
regards
Andy
Some vendors are blinkered and doubt have ridden a decent hub motor, not all hubs are the same as they are wound different for rpm speed. For instance a 270/300 rpm hub can't climb hills better or efficiently as a 201/230 rpm hub.
Broken spokes on rear hubs are a bit of a myth, if the hub is built properly and tensioned correctly you will see very few spoke breakages.
For flatish commute route or hilly road commute a good front hub with Alfine8 hub gears is a no brainer, rear wheel need very little or no dishing like a cassette hub wheel does.
The issue with the mid drive is you are locked in to a dealer situation and can't really do anything to repair the system, unlike hub bikes (barring the rubbish Suntour locked in system ) they are perfect for tinkerers/diyers as Andy has also mentioned.
Broken spokes on rear hubs are a bit of a myth, if the hub is built properly and tensioned correctly you will see very few spoke breakages.
For flatish commute route or hilly road commute a good front hub with Alfine8 hub gears is a no brainer, rear wheel need very little or no dishing like a cassette hub wheel does.
The issue with the mid drive is you are locked in to a dealer situation and can't really do anything to repair the system, unlike hub bikes (barring the rubbish Suntour locked in system ) they are perfect for tinkerers/diyers as Andy has also mentioned.
Sadly it is a part of life cycle and happens, the good people pick them selves up and plod on.
A case of chin up and move on, lady luck prevails for the triers in life and there are a lot of triers out there even me.
When I hear such things from a sales person, that makes me think twice.
I also have been caught out by such sales talk on other things than bikes, and learned my lesson....
But as I said in another post here, as an engineer, you have mainly learned the hard way.....Nowadays I generally know which awkward questions to ask about anything I want to buy, before I buy!
Plus if the sales person (as in this example) just wants to push products, they know nothing about the technology.
When I was working, I would go WITH a sales person and take over all the engineering questions.... Salesman who are wise do that!!
regards
Andy
Conversion to hub drive isn't as comprehensive as making a new bottom bracket mount. You or anyone else can open up the unit and strip out all the works except the pedalshaft assembly and its bearings, then use that as the bottom bracket. Some have done that with old failed Panasonic mid drive Giant Lafree e-bikes, adding a front wheel motor kit.
Just another possibility to add to your present options.
.
From what was discussed to keep the bike rolling - from the top of my head strip out the non-functional guts of the defunct motor and either fit a BB (if available) or get a custom BB made ( https://www.hambini.com ) and fit a rear hub.
I was in the same situation as Hairy Neville, you could try the performance bearing man, he might be able to help,
Give the performance bearing man ago, he might be able to help , look for
www.performancebearing.com., he is listed on this forum, it got my Khalkhoff back on the road, not sure how it is now, I got rid of it since.
But it was running, when disposed of it.
Many thanks Nealh, Andy, flecc, Wicky and grldtnr for your suggestions, advice and sympathy.
The main reason I went for the Pro Connect back in 2017 was that it seemed like the kind of sturdy, well-made e-bike I needed to serve as my primary form of transport to and from work. I'd been out of work for months before getting the job last month which I then had to give up because I had no other way to get there after the motor died! I've had no problems with the frame and original components so it would be nice to refit the bike, but despite an excess of time I have no money to try it! The original cost was £1600, which at the time I viewed as an investment but I now see as a complete loss, so any additional costs will just be salt in the wound. That's why I'm hoping to find a way of making some kind of return on a bad situation (with breaking down the bike and selling individual parts being current most realistic option).
I've contacted the local Citizens' Advice to see if they're aware of any way I can get money back from either the bike shop or Kalkhoff, seeing as they knowingly sold me a faulty product that wasn't fit for purpose (i.e. daily 12 mile commutes through hilly country roads). I'll post here and perhaps in a new thread as well if they're able to give any useful advice.
The main reason I went for the Pro Connect back in 2017 was that it seemed like the kind of sturdy, well-made e-bike I needed to serve as my primary form of transport to and from work. I'd been out of work for months before getting the job last month which I then had to give up because I had no other way to get there after the motor died! I've had no problems with the frame and original components so it would be nice to refit the bike, but despite an excess of time I have no money to try it! The original cost was £1600, which at the time I viewed as an investment but I now see as a complete loss, so any additional costs will just be salt in the wound. That's why I'm hoping to find a way of making some kind of return on a bad situation (with breaking down the bike and selling individual parts being current most realistic option).
I've contacted the local Citizens' Advice to see if they're aware of any way I can get money back from either the bike shop or Kalkhoff, seeing as they knowingly sold me a faulty product that wasn't fit for purpose (i.e. daily 12 mile commutes through hilly country roads). I'll post here and perhaps in a new thread as well if they're able to give any useful advice.
The Performance Bearing Man responded the second time I posted about this, but for some reason my first two threads disappeared from the forum shortly after posting them. Kalkhoff's gremlins at work again, perhaps!
Well, I've had a fairly productive day!
I contacted the local Citizens' Advice who pointed me in the direction of their advice on faulty goods. I've now contacted the shop that essentially mis-sold the e-bike with a Consumers Right Act 2015 complaint e-mail, opening with the template text supplied by Citizens's Advice and filling it out with links to this and other forums, as well as news articles detailing 50 Cycles' collapse as a result of their dealings with Kalkhoff and the Impulse line. I've asked for either a refund or an exchange for a non-Kalkhoff, non-Impulse e-bike with equivalent components (i.e. an e-bike which now costs in the region of £2,500 instead of the £1,600 I paid in 2017).
I also discovered that Kalkhoff have extended the warranty by 12 months for Impulse motors bought on or after 1 August 2017. That means I could technically have a free replacement (no way!), but more importantly it shows that they acknowledge the problems with the motor.
I can't find any direct e-mail to contact Kalkhoff, so if anyone has that then I'd love to know it!
I'm also going to pass this information on to the other forum user looking into Impulse replacements.
Fingers crossed!
I contacted the local Citizens' Advice who pointed me in the direction of their advice on faulty goods. I've now contacted the shop that essentially mis-sold the e-bike with a Consumers Right Act 2015 complaint e-mail, opening with the template text supplied by Citizens's Advice and filling it out with links to this and other forums, as well as news articles detailing 50 Cycles' collapse as a result of their dealings with Kalkhoff and the Impulse line. I've asked for either a refund or an exchange for a non-Kalkhoff, non-Impulse e-bike with equivalent components (i.e. an e-bike which now costs in the region of £2,500 instead of the £1,600 I paid in 2017).
I also discovered that Kalkhoff have extended the warranty by 12 months for Impulse motors bought on or after 1 August 2017. That means I could technically have a free replacement (no way!), but more importantly it shows that they acknowledge the problems with the motor.
I can't find any direct e-mail to contact Kalkhoff, so if anyone has that then I'd love to know it!
I'm also going to pass this information on to the other forum user looking into Impulse replacements.
Fingers crossed!
WOW! You are making some big waves now!
Best of luck and keep us all informed!
Andy
Why would they offer to replace your motor with a new equally fault-probe motor? Are the ones they are swapping out any more robust or does omit just get them off the hook if or when the replacement fails?
Must admit a large part of me wanting a kit to retrofit my existing bike rather than buying a dedicated ebike was influenced by the "when the motor packs up a few years from now, will I still find something that fits the bottom bracket or will I have to xhuxh the bike?" fears.
Must admit a large part of me wanting a kit to retrofit my existing bike rather than buying a dedicated ebike was influenced by the "when the motor packs up a few years from now, will I still find something that fits the bottom bracket or will I have to xhuxh the bike?" fears.
Conditions of warranty for your E-Bike and bicycle | KALKHOFF
www.kalkhoff-bikes.com
managing director: Jan Cornelis van der Heiden, Dr. Alexander Wünsch, Wolfgang Wildemann
Siemensstraße 1-3
D - 49661 Cloppenburg
E-mail: info(at)kalkhoff-bikes.com
Phone: +49 (0)4471.966-0
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