Digital rear veiw mirror!

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Guys

I have just been sent this link, what a superb idea!

Cerevellum

I know what I want for my birthday next year!

All the best David

 

[Mussels]

I like that, then all I need are good indicators.

It only records 30 second videos, a continuous recording of the last 5 minutes would be useful.

 

[RichLarry]

££££ouch

Hi - Lots of money for that but very cool looking - What would you recomend for my new 905SE City in terms of mirrors and best fit??

 

[Danny-K]

I like that, then all I need are good indicators.

It only records 30 second videos, a continuous recording of the last 5 minutes would be useful.

Wow! Bicycle gadget of the year for sure.

And if it works as well as it says it does, then hopefully it'll eventually develop so that it will accept larger capacity storage cards for say 30 minute recordings. That would mean when on holiday, or at a particular scenic area, you could unclip the camera, switch cards and record the surroundings/your journey. Then, no need for the bike/helmet mounted ATC-2000 waterproof camcorder. The more expensive ATC-5000 does have a screen, but it's not detachable.

 

[Mussels]

Wow! Bicycle gadget of the year for sure.

And if it works as well as it says it does, then hopefully it'll eventually develop so that it will accept larger capacity storage cards for say 30 minute recordings. That would mean when on holiday, or at a particular scenic area, you could unclip the camera, switch cards and record the surroundings/your journey. Then, no need for the bike/helmet mounted ATC-2000 waterproof camcorder. The more expensive ATC-5000 does have a screen, but it's not detachable.

That's the big if, I haven't found a reliable cycle computer yet let alone one with a remote camera built in.

 

[flecc]

The image quality is also a question mark for me, since the video in that demonstration appeared to be a simulation, framed by the computer and static digits display.
.

 

[rog_london]

The image quality is also a question mark for me, since the video in that demonstration appeared to be a simulation, framed by the computer and static digits display.
.

Although they mentioned a 'guide' price, the most important thing in there is that it won't be available for (at least) another year. THEY say 'Spring 2010', but that's what the computer business refers to as 'vaporware' (US spelling, 'cos it's a US product). So, wait and see. There's no doubt, though, that once someone gets such a product to market it'll sell. Also, if the image quality is iffy to start with, it'll get better by leaps and bounds and the price will drop too.

I suspect that the technology is already there though - in mobile phones. Some of them have amazing high-resolution cameras, memory card slots, good screens and Bluetooth - which is all you need. I suspect, though, that the sort of people who could make the bike device work right now can't be bothered because the market will be, by their standards, a small one.

Bear in mind that among ourselves are many who are a bit geeky - or why else would we bother with battery-powered bikes? OK - ignore that last bit. You can't see my grin.

Rog.

 

[Haku]

Unless they use a transreflective LCD screen & high quality CCD camera it won't be worth it.

Screen wise a standard LCD or STM screen won't cut it in broad daylight & especially not in sunlight, you can see a picture on a transreflective screen in sunlight because it reflects the daylight/sunlight to light the display.

Camera wise most CMOS video cameras don't cope well with the usually high contrast between ground & sky which means you'll either be able to see quite well behind you with a bright sky or you'll get a good picture of the sky and the ground will be too dark.
An average CCD camera will fair better but also will never be as good as your own eyes looking into a mirror.
Oh and both types of camera will suffer lens flare if the car behind you has their lights on and/or the sun is right behind you, unless it's a very very expensive camera.

I don't see any mention of the specific type of screen + camera used, and their 'in action' demonstration is just a simulation, video footage on a computer rendered image of their device (in fact all images of the product are rendered) which doesn't inspire much confidence at it being something special, I wonder just how much of that $300 price tag actually goes towards the cost of the hardware.


A couple of years ago I did a similar test, mounting a 3" pocket tv to my handlebars and a Sony CCD bullet camera on my pannier rack. It worked pretty well when I could actually see the screen, the sun was a bit of a problem and only really worked well when it was cloudy or I went under trees/bridge etc.

 

[rog_london]

Unless they use a transreflective LCD screen & high quality CCD camera it won't be worth it.

Screen wise a standard LCD or STM screen won't cut it in broad daylight & especially not in sunlight, you can see a picture on a transreflective screen in sunlight because it reflects the daylight/sunlight to light the display.

Camera wise most CMOS video cameras don't cope well with the usually high contrast between ground & sky which means you'll either be able to see quite well behind you with a bright sky or you'll get a good picture of the sky and the ground will be too dark.
An average CCD camera will fair better but also will never be as good as your own eyes looking into a mirror.
Oh and both types of camera will suffer lens flare if the car behind you has their lights on and/or the sun is right behind you, unless it's a very very expensive camera.

I don't see any mention of the specific type of screen + camera used, and their 'in action' demonstration is just a simulation, video footage on a computer rendered image of their device (in fact all images of the product are rendered) which doesn't inspire much confidence at it being something special, I wonder just how much of that $300 price tag actually goes towards the cost of the hardware.


A couple of years ago I did a similar test, mounting a 3" pocket tv to my handlebars and a Sony CCD bullet camera on my pannier rack. It worked pretty well when I could actually see the screen, the sun was a bit of a problem and only really worked well when it was cloudy or I went under trees/bridge etc.

All very true - not to mention trying to get a stable picture while the bike is bouncing around. Even a full suspension bike probably wouldn't help much, and this thing would have to work on anything from a road bike to a trail bike. I know 'picture stabilisation' technology is well developed, but that is intended to deal with a hand held camera in the control of someone who is making some effort to keep it steady. The processing technology required for this gadget would be huge and expensive.

Human eye/brain coordination is underestimated because it works so well, not to mention that even the optically challenged among us have incredibly high-resolution eyeballs with huge light intensity bandwidth. It's those features which make a conventional rear view mirror so effective, and make the most expensive camera look very under-developed.

Rog.

 

[Haku]

Image stabilisation isn't as much of an issue as you'd think, a camera firmly mounted to the bike's frame or even forks doesn't shake much at all on normal roads.

For example I did this recording showing an Archos bullet camera's picture quality (it's a re-branded Sony CCD bullet camera):
YouTube - Archos Bullet Cam Day
it also aptly demonstrates just how much the brightness of the sky affects the contrast of the picture & how dark/light the road apears in the video.

This one was taken at night and shows what car lights do to the image:
YouTube - Archos Bullet Cam Night
an average (cheapie) CMOS camera in that situation would almost be blind because it can't see squat at night.


If I could get hold of a reasonably priced transreflective LCD screen with composite video input I'd seriously think about adding a rear view camera to my bike.

 

[rog_london]

I must admit, that's much better than I had expected, in every way. Only the night one on You Tube seems to be working at the moment, but that was certainly good.

Hmm. Looks like it could be viable, if a suitable screen becomes available. Is there anything which works well in all conditions from total darkness to full sun?

Rog.

 

[JohnInStockie]

The other thing that puts me off on this (apart from the price, the potential screen issue, and image quality) is that what looks to be a very small screen, judging by the size of those buttons, it cant be more than a couple of inches across.

John

 

[Haku]

Doing some idle googling for transflective (not transreflective as I've now discovered) screens, the only type I've found so far you can actually buy as a consumer is a 7" widescreen with VGA/composite input, for over £300 & consumes 9 watts.

All the 2.4" - 4" range of transflective screens I've found are for PDAs/satnavs/camcorders etc. purchasable if you're a company developing your own products, no standalone unit with composite video input for a basic camera connection unfortunately.

Resolution wise, your average 2.4" - 3.5" TFT screen with composite video input is only 160 x 234 pixels, they often say 480 wide but that's only because they're counting each individual R G & B element, which may in a way be true because some screens (notably pocket tv's) treat each R G & B element as different pixels rather than using banks of 3 like normal TFT computer monitors/tvs.

 

[moon]

Hi - Lots of money for that but very cool looking - What would you recomend for my new 905SE City in terms of mirrors and best fit??

I have one of these but dont use the throttle much
http://www.evanscycles.com/product_image/image/ca5/a03/329/28774/large/blackburn-mirror-hybrid-atb-bar-fitting.jpg

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Mirror

Now the throttle is only the inside half of the grip these should work well.

Hi Moon!

Best regards David

 

[Haku]

If anyone's still pondering making their own inexpensive homebrew digital rear view mirror, just found this neat little 2.5" screen for $35.44 inc. postage: DealExtreme: 2.5" LCD screen (NTSC/PAL)
It has a L/R switch which can mirror the incoming signal so you can use any camera you want, the rear view cameras that mirror their image are usually more expensive than normal cameras.

Sure it's not transflective but being so small you could fit a hood on it to block out most of the ambient light.

12v power supply might be a problem if you can't tap into your bike's battery to cut that 24v-36v input down to 12v. Plus amost all off-the-shelf CCD cameras you can buy run off 12v, 5v ones are out there but hideously expensive.

 

[Fecn]

I thought about this one, and decided that the cheapest way to get a digital rear view mirror might be to 'stretch' a cheap digital camera. Detach the screen, and extend the cables all the way to the handlebars... then stick the rest of the camera body (battery etc) under the seat.

Rather annoyingly, I had just thrown out an old 1.3MP Fuji camera the month before I thought of that idea.

 

[voodoo100]

Rear view

Try this, Only about £10.00

 

[Haku]

Well that's no fun ;p

 

[Straylight]

Well, if you fancy looking like a Dalek