Difficulties getting an e-car, Part 2

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
We all know the most obvious limitations such as short range and high replacement battery cost, but there are little known ones too. For example:

No towbar can be fitted and it must not be used for towing even a small trailer.

It must never be towed, since this would damage the drive system.

Due to the battery size space it has no spare wheel of any sort, which means a breakdown call for any puncture.

It weighs almost two tons, so not easy to push out of the way after an emergency stop situation. That weight also subtracts from some of it's environmental benefits.
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I hadn't thought of those limitations, so that makes the car even more unattractive. Does the lack of spare wheel and inability to be towed affect insurance or breakdown scheme membership?

You mentioned the environment. If we apply the, "what if we all did that" test to electric cars, the national grid would probably collapse. Wires between pylons would be glowing dull orange! I suppose the number of KWh of petrol and Diesel that we burn in our vehicles would need to come from the power stations instead (Coal, gas, nuclear, windmills, solar etc). So still an impact on the environment from increased fossil fuel burn, blighted landscapes strewn with decapitated owls from the windmills, fields covered in solar panels and increased nuclear waste.

Until electric cars make greater economic and environmental sense, I think they are doomed to failure and will never sell in any meaningful quantities. By the time this happens, Dave and George's Chinese electricity should be flowing into our homes and God help us all then.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I hadn't thought of those limitations, so that makes the car even more unattractive. Does the lack of spare wheel and inability to be towed affect insurance or breakdown scheme membership?
That I don't know, but it seems likely that there would either be restrictions on the standard benefits or a surcharge.

The one bright spot is that in year one, Nissan give free pickups and return to home for anyone accidentally running out of juice. Obviously that's to offset range objections and nervousness.
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Until electric cars make greater economic and environmental sense, ...
I think that they do already for some people.

What if all those who need a car which fits into an electric cars limitations switched now. That would clean up a lot of our cities for one (yes Paris I am looking at you!).

What if we rethought car ownership as many on this forum have probably done.

When I lived in the city I went that route - set up a spreadsheet with all the numbers and talked it through. Our family car was parked in front of the house all week only being used on weekends. It was a very comfortable Citroen XM with loads of space for three kids and luggage etc. Sold it for scrap, it was end of life and bought a Smart. Family of 4+1 and a two seater are you nuts? Nope when we needed a bigger car we rented one. Depending on what we needed it for and the number of passengers a bigger or a smaller model. The savings over a year were not huge (about 1500€) but we always had the right vehicle for the occasion including taking the grandmother on vacation along with the kids. We used to go to the beach by train and laughed all the way home at the people stuck in the Sunday evening beach jam on the four lane highway to the coast.

If we time shifted to now I wouldn't have thought twice about buying a couple of Danish electric trikes for transporting the kids to sport or moving shopping, the things we used the Smart for. The city was Nantes which is one of Europe's new cycling capitals and which also has a tramway and very extensive public transport. An electric Smart would work there.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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That £11640 price, by comparison, does seem to be very low, so maybe a mistake or ploy to generate a face to face enquiry. My colleague paid more than that for a 12 month old Leaf.
I have followed this through anonymously for the Leicester dealer and found to my surprise the offer is genuine. Here's the details:

New Leaf Visia Flex 5dr Auto
£20,790
Metallic - Universal Silver
£550
Additional options
£0
Total RRP
£21,340
-----------------------------------
Cash Offer


£11,640

£9,700 off

45.5% saving
----------------------------------

Finance Offer


£13,440

£7,900 off

37.0% saving
---------------------------------

They certainly seem desperate to shift them, probably to keep the production line going rather than risk it having to shut down.
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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
I have followed this through anonymously for the Leicester dealer and found to my surprise the offer is genuine. Here's the details:

New Leaf Visia Flex 5dr Auto
£20,790
Metallic - Universal Silver
£550
Additional options
£0
Total RRP
£21,340
-----------------------------------
Cash Offer


£11,640

£9,700 off

45.5% saving
----------------------------------

Finance Offer


£13,440

£7,900 off

37.0% saving
---------------------------------

They certainly seem desperate to shift them, probably to keep the production line going rather than risk it having to shut down.
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I think that the huge discount speaks volumes about electric cars. I really want to like them and to be inspired to buy one, but I can't. However I look at it, their limitations need to be reflected in the purchase price and as I said before, in my circumstances, that would be about £5000.

They clearly suit some people's lifestyle, such as anotherkiwi's, but a present day electric car wouldn't fit in with my life and I suspect the majority of others too. anotherkiwi is probably right, a re-think in the way we live is needed.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
I think that the huge discount speaks volumes about electric cars.
Renault-Nissan dived in to please the policians who were calling for the industry to get involved and clearly hoped to gain from that. They got the praise heaped on and some backing with subsidies, but I'm sure they must really be regretting it now. The overall losses must be immense and growing, but they are stuck now with carrying on in support of those they've sold internationally.
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
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When you think that they had the financial clout to take on Tesla head to head in the same fashion Airbus against all odds took on Boeing...

Well the yellow cars are back in Formula One helping with the climate and CO2 emissions and all that next season...
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
This is a fascinating topic, my wife has owned a Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 automatic which she loves for 9 years and would reluctant to part with.
It has been very reliable....so far, I don't want to tempt providence, but one day it will need replacing.
She doesn't venture far so range would not be an issue.

The Renault Zoe caught my eye, it's smaller than the Leaf and looks relatively attractive, an important factor for the female of the species.

As yet I have no idea if prices or deals similar to those being offered for the Leaf are available or if the economics make any sense.

What I find attractive is never having to go to a petrol station and being able to charge an electric car for free with power from our solar panels....when the sunshines.

Time to do some serious research and read what you guys have to say.

One quick question that you may or may not know, I quite understand that you can't tow anything with an electric car, but could a tow bar be fitted just use a towbar mounted bike carrier?

At this stage electric is not an option for me, I have one of the last Renault Grand Espace IV automatic people/bike carriers with 175bhp diesel guzzling motor that also has to tow a large box trailer.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
This is a fascinating topic, my wife has owned a Daihatsu Sirion 1.3 automatic which she loves for 9 years and would reluctant to part with.
It has been very reliable....so far, I don't want to tempt providence, but one day it will need replacing.
She doesn't venture far so range would not be an issue.

The Renault Zoe caught my eye, it's smaller than the Leaf and looks relatively attractive, an important factor for the female of the species.

As yet I have no idea if prices or deals similar to those being offered for the Leaf are available or if the economics make any sense.

What I find attractive is never having to go to a petrol station and being able to charge an electric car for free with power from our solar panels....when the sunshines.

Time to do some serious research and read what you guys have to say.

One quick question that you may or may not know, I quite understand that you can't tow anything with an electric car, but could a tow bar be fitted just use a towbar mounted bike carrier?

At this stage electric is not an option for me, I have one of the last Renault Grand Espace IV automatic people/bike carriers with 175bhp diesel guzzling motor that also has to tow a large box trailer.
I doubt a towbar can be fitted, though I don't know for certain. That whole rear underfloor area is where the battery casing is, hence no spare wheel, so probably little or nothing structural to bolt to.

Someone reported in here very recently getting a Renault Zoe for £10,000, but that was with renting the battery on a monthly charge which is minimum £70 and rising for higher mileages. So nothing like as good as that Leaf £11,640 with battery included.

These prices are for the most basic models of course, steel wheels, manual air-con etc., it's a couple of thousand more for better spec models.
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
C

Cyclezee

Guest
I doubt a towbar can be fitted, though I don't know for certain. That whole rear underfloor area is where the battery casing is, hence no spare wheel, so probably little or nothing structural to bolt to.

Someone reported in here very recently getting a Renault Zoe for £10,000, but that was with renting the battery on a monthly charge which is minimum £70 and rising for higher mileages. So nothing like as good as that Leaf £11,640 with battery included.

These prices are for the most basic models of course, steel wheels, manual air-con etc., it's a couple of thousand more for better spec models.
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Thanks Tony, the towbar issue was not really important .
At the prices you quote the Leaf does look like a good deal, but Mrs Cyclezee would almost certainly say it's tooooo big, whereas I would probably buy a Leaf tomorrow if it worked for me.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
Last edited:

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
An electric Smart with...



:eek: Oh I am in trouble now... :rolleyes:
 
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eBoy

Pedelecer
Jun 24, 2014
72
37
73
That Smart bike looks very designer to me. Anyone got one? LOL!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,260
30,648
As yet I have no idea if prices or deals similar to those being offered for the Leaf are available or if the economics make any sense.
It's possible that there could be a sudden leap in e-car prices, since this government is slashing subsidies on what they consider desirable technologies.

For example the solar panels they want us to buy and install are having their subsidy slashed by a huge 85% in January. It means the £400 per annum payback that a typical householder might have expected from what they feed back to the grid drops to about £58.

George Osborne's next target for these cuts could well be the £5000 subsidy for each e-car bought, which is included in all the foregoing e-car prices.
.
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
I have followed this through anonymously for the Leicester dealer and found to my surprise the offer is genuine. Here's the details:

New Leaf Visia Flex 5dr Auto
£20,790
Metallic - Universal Silver
£550
Additional options
£0
Total RRP
£21,340
-----------------------------------
Cash Offer


£11,640

£9,700 off

45.5% saving
----------------------------------

Finance Offer


£13,440

£7,900 off

37.0% saving
---------------------------------

They certainly seem desperate to shift them, probably to keep the production line going rather than risk it having to shut down.
.
Hi Tony,

How did you find that offer, was it with https://www.carwow.co.uk ?
 
C

Cyclezee

Guest
Thanks Tony,

I will give it a shot but very much doubt I will take the plunge as long as the Daihatsu has life left in it.
 

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