Different bikes effect on Battery performance

[minexplorer]

After moving an eclipse bikes battery from one bike to another and being suprised at the result.Im interested to hear others two peneth worth.
I know there are so many factors, weight ,motor size,gearing ,15mph restricted or not. Etc.
So basically. Fairly typical 22kg 26in bike, BBS01b 350w 36v 17.4ah unrestricted speed, 42,13x34 gears.
Using PAS 4 ,PAS 5 for hills,fully utilising low gears.Typical devon with plenty of hills. Typically get 27 miles til batt cuts out.Only reaching 20mph+ on flat an not for long. First time i used it i Got 35 miles on PAS 5 all time,but that was with 15mph cutout.
That bikes having probs at mo.So ive transfered battery to my other bike.
This bike 25kg 20in wheels,200w gearless rear hub motor. Has 15mph cutout. As suggested by d8veh ive ordered a volt meter for it.As its an old 24v sla bike .But in the meantime the BMS is shutting the batt off around 33v .What suprises me is this 200w 15mph restricted motor ,while awesomely improved by 36v only manages 20 mile range.While the 350w when restricted made 35 ??. Anyone think thats to be expected.Small un geared motor working harder or something.
I was under the impression 36v batteries are supposed to be 42v fully charged. i notice after 1000 miles, the battery charges to 41v not 42v is that normal. Ive just risked buying a 14.5ah batt from a chinese seller on ebay Elfie bikes.came from germany LG cells 2year guarantee.After 3 charges its always 41.5v not 42v is that alright. Looked like it was going to return 20 miles of constant PAS 5, unrestricted speed, before the bafang 350w motor spoiled the test with its unrelated issues and conked out.
Im fairly new to ebikes, used 3 over the last few years. 2 of them given to me .So i really appreciate every bit of knowledge that people pass on ,thanks Rad

 

[Deleted member 4366]

41.5 v is about right. Anything less than 41v might be something to worry about, but 41v is OK.

The 200w motor isn't 200w. That's just a marking for compliance. It's actual power could be anything. If it has no internal gears (direct drive), it'll most likely be less efficient than your geared one, which would explain the difference, but some of those old 24v ones had 20 amp controllers, so it could be delivering more power.

 

[minexplorer]

Interesting, i was imagining the 15 mph cutoff at least returning 30+ mile .Thats something i noticed affected the bafangs range considerably.The controller has no specs or id on it unfortunately.

 

[footpump]

i had the ebc kit 250w rear wheel ,13.4ah fitted to specialised sirrus elite
using mode 2 out of 5 quite often got 40 miles range , but I pootle about at 12mph.
one day I did about 4 miles of local hills at level 5 and at 15mph battery dropped dramitacally but I think the controller only draws 14a and moter not very powerfull.
I then put the 13.4 battery onto my hallfords subway one with 250w tdz2 which I run at 16 amps and sport mode fairly flattish terrain and seem to be about the 25 miles of range max.

I have just bought yosepower 36v 17.ah which I tried for the first time this week on the subway 9 miles fairly cold 33f some a bit more hilly did 27.7 in total 3 bars left out of 8 sport mode and turbo for a bit, no throttle used and not windy. but range may well improve after a few more charges.

 

[footpump]

mineexplorer forgot to ask is it the 36v 17ah with Samsung 29e cells eclipse,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Range depends a lot on the quality and type of cells. I had two new 48v 11.6Ah Dolphin batteries. The one with cheap cells would sag down to 75% as soon as I opened the throttle, and it would cut out about a minute after it showed the last bar. The other one could do 10 miles before the first bar went and would still go for 10 miles after it showed the last bar. The cheap one had about 60% of the range of the Panasonic one. That's on the same bike in the same conditions.

 

[KirstinS]

I echo d8veh experience but with generic Chinese cells vs Samsung .

Used on same bike for two years each on identical 15 mile commute (and data backed up by GPS logger (strava))

I got much less sag and about 20% greater range with Samsung

 

[minexplorer]

mineexplorer forgot to ask is it the 36v 17ah with Samsung 29e cells eclipse,

Yes the battery from Eclipse was the 17.4 ah samsung 29e cells. It was new 4 months ago.Ive done a 1000 miles on it and it does seem to have lost some range. Im afraid i find im often cycling 30miles.Running the battery til the bms shuts it off. I think thats not good for the battery ,but hard to avoid.30 miles is nothing on a elec bike.
Im suprised at others getting 20 -25 mile ranges out of just 10ah batteries. Must be 250w motors, restricted 15mph and low pas level?

 

[Nealh]

My 3 year old 14.5ah 29E with a bbs01 used to get me 52 miles max using the factory settings, after reprogramming the bbs range went down to about 35 miles.

Using till BMS shuts off shouldn't be a big issue as most are set to 34v min so you are still not getting full capacity from the cells. For max capacity use discharging down to 2.5 - 2.8v is the test most used albeit at a rather limp 0.2a load.
No point having all those ah's and not using them.

 

[footpump]

I always thought better cells ,less voltage sag on hills etc seems it effects range quite a bit too.
what I find odd is my yosepower 10ah £160 covered 2100 miles in a year 25-30 max .
my new yosepower 17.ah 27.7 miles covered down to 3 out of 8 battery level

how can you get more range if the bms cuts off?

 

[Nealh]

With better rated cells giving 10,15 or 20a + and higher capacity you should get better longevity as the cells will be less stressed and keep cooler. The problem is you can't have your cake and eat it, the top cells will give top amps when you need it but at the expense of capacity/range. Unlike lesser rated cells they should fair better and last longer.

The only answer for more range is more battery ah, as you can't adjust the voltage cut off with the bms unless you possibly have a Bluetooth one. The bms cut off though is for cell protection and pointless going much lower as the battery is practically empty for our needs.
Don't forget the test graphs for maxing out battery ah is done at 0.2a, for our use we need to look at how the batteries perform between 3 - 8a constant draw.

 

[minexplorer]

what I find odd is my yosepower 10ah £160 covered 2100 miles in a year 25-30 max .
my new yosepower 17.ah 27.7 miles covered down to 3 out of 8 battery level

I dont trust battery bar levels on the display . Ive noticed the first may last 15 miles before it goes out.Before you know it the remaining 4 have followed for only another ten. And soon its yet another embarassing kneecap popping slog home with all the pedal cyclists breezing past with smug contempt on their faces.

 

[minexplorer]

My 3 year old 14.5ah 29E with a bbs01 used to get me 52 miles max using the factory settings, after reprogramming the bbs range went down to about 35 miles.

52 is incredible. Is that a 250w bbs01 on a roadbike? What level PAS? Mines the 350w on a 22kg mtb an im 14st. I only made 35 when it had a 15mph restriction 27 without. An thats a 17.4ah samsung cells.Usually have on max PAS tho.

 

[anotherkiwi]

GSM = BBS01 clone: 60 km (37.3 m.) with a 9 Ah LiPo battery. I like pedalling, weigh less than 80 kg and the bike more than 22-23 kg.

 

[Nealh]

52 is incredible. Is that a 250w bbs01 on a roadbike? What level PAS? Mines the 350w on a 22kg mtb an im 14st. I only made 35 when it had a 15mph restriction 27 without. An thats a 17.4ah samsung cells.Usually have on max PAS tho.

When I first had my bbs 350w I knew very little about them the KC was set to a meagre 20% from UK seller, with my brand new 29E 14.5ah dolphin battery on a mtb.
Unrestricted PAS 4 - 6 ocassionally higher for downs riding.
You can get good mileage from batteries with bbs but it is all down to the programming. If you want range then you have to programme bbs conservatively to be frugal.
BBS is now programmed for 70% KC so range is less now giving more oomph, I carry extra ah's now for range in top rack bag or panniers.

 

[footpump]

minexplorer you have the 17ah with 29e Samsung cells, and in another thread the 14ah psw power with descent lg cells ,although its long at 420mm
how do the 2 compare the psw one seems to be about £226.

 

[topographer]

52 is incredible. Is that a 250w bbs01 on a roadbike? What level PAS? Mines the 350w on a 22kg mtb an im 14st. I only made 35 when it had a 15mph restriction 27 without. An thats a 17.4ah samsung cells.Usually have on max PAS tho.

How many amps are you drawing?

 

[Kinninvie]

I get at least 200 miles out of the battery on my BBSHD....
It is 64Ah of Multistar LiPo though
I do pedal as much as I can but thats mainly on the flat due to 16Kg of battery and 100Kg of rider!

 

[minexplorer]

minexplorer you have the 17ah with 29e Samsung cells, and in another thread the 14ah psw power with descent lg cells ,although its long at 420mm
how do the 2 compare the psw one seems to be about £226.

Its really hard to tell at the moment . I bought the 14.5ah psw for £195+£11 p & p for my other bike, a gearless rear hub.But the bracket was incompatible .So i put it on the bbs an put the 17.4ah shark on the other.
Because rain has caused some issues with the bbs dying randomly .ive not been able to run the PSW battery to empty.So far i got 15 miles, unrestricted speed on PAS 5 (0 - 5) before the bike died. But looked like i wld have gotten another 5 from the battery indicator .
The 17.4 ah usually did 27 miles ,tho i did use PAS 4 alot ,with 5 for hills. I did once get 35miles on PAS 5 all time ,but that was before i de retricted it .Seems higher speeds are the biggest factor in reducing range.Think i may set the bbs to 17mph cut out.

 

[minexplorer]

How many amps are you drawing?

Its the 350w bbs01b 18 amps controller