DHL Duty & Vat charges

[morphix]

I know we're going off-topic here but hey ho this is a pretty fundamental issue to get to grips with and now's a good time to do it since the rest of the build is progressing so well... and a load of interesting and very relevant points being raised...


That's an option ... what sort of ££ are we talking about ? I use this case on my other bike and just got a compatible mount for the new one so I can mount it on either :

You can get some for under £40 like these:

New Design 3.5" Capacitive Screen 2 SIM Unlocked Android 2.3 SP6820 Smart Phone | eBay

2.6 Inch Touch Screen with Keyboard Smart Phone Android 2.2 MTK6516 TV WiFi | eBay

This one is £41 delivered..

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/NEW-3-5-Capacitive-Screen-2-SIM-Android-2-3-WiFi-FEITENG-Smart-Phone-Cell-Phone-/00/s/NDgwWDQ4MA==/$T2eC16J,!yUE9s6NEGD+BQ+4NDk2i!~~60_1.JPG

You might get stuffed with the import VAT/Duty though and Royal Mail £8 fee lark if buying from China..might be better off just looking for a second-hand branded one in UK that's in good cond?

Argos have one for £35..not the best looking and locked to Vodafone, but ok if it's just for bike and Speedict use I guess:

VODAFONE VF858 MOBILE PHONE - WHITE 5055015233955 | eBay

If you want a decent looking one, with latest Android, dual cam, dual/quad sim with radio and all the gimzos that's basically a unbranded copy of HTC/iphone handsets, you will pay about £55-£60, delivered. Not bad considering the price of new HTC's really.

... so maybe if I could get a waterproof tough case for the 2nd phone and also use the charger add-ons that would be a neat solution. I'm thinking a new phone plus different case (as can't use my current one with a different sized phone) etc will all add ££££££££ which needs to be thought about carefully.

I don't understand circuitry (or phones !) enough yet to know what I'm doing trying to match these options up so any help is appreciated.

Yeah if you're on a tight budget maybe just wait it out and see if Speedict can come through with a firmware update that supports your handset. Maybe ask what sort of time scale you're looking at, assuming it's possible and see if it's worth waiting.

The wiring side of the Speedict looks complicated but it's not that complicated really I don't think once you sit down with the user guide and a pin-out wiring guide for your controller..I'm at the wiring stage myself now.. I think it's best to label up your controller cables with bits of white label before you hack off the connectors, as the colours can be different to wiring guides supplied by BMS and it just makes the job a lot easier.

I think Speedict is very DIY-ish and you would definitely need to hack up your controller cables and fit some proper connectors between it and the Speedict. Might be better just to wire the Speedict straight into the controller and remove the need for loads of ugly wires and connectors.

What I'm thinking of doing is just putting the controller and the Speedict together in a new housing, one of those plastic hobby boxes you can buy cheap, and then just having two 8-core cables grommeted coming out of it with male DIN plug sockets on end. Then can just have throttle, PAS, brake sensor etc, all on a couple of 8-core cables cable tied down to frame with female DIN sockets at end. Then you'd just have the motor cable and some power connector from battery. That might be a tidier solution so you can just take your kit off quickly and easily with just 3 cables to unplug.

Not sure what that means if I'm totally honest. Tranceivers ? Removing consoles ? Wot wot ? ... lol

Check this link for more info on BH Neo. It's basically like a LCD console AND a speedict-type-thing in one device..but the LCD comes off and you can plug in a Bluetooth widget which then obviously lets you use your Android phone instead of the little LCD console that only shows basic info. I think it's a neat product and costs a bit less than Speedict or about the same, but I have no idea where you would buy it, or even if it works with other controllers...it's made by the company BH in Spain who make the Emotive brand of e-bikes.

That would be nice - except I have a 30amp controller and this leds me to believe I cannot use them :

Ah I see.. I think you would definitely have to change controller anyway to one from the same manufacturer as LCD console if you wanted one as normal controllers don't have any wiring out for LCD support. All money isn't it eh.

No idea what that would involve lol. Isn't a Raspberry a bit rude and Java in Indonesia ? .. seriously, I know nothing about programming beyond Basic inputs to BBC Micro of yesteryear, and my brain aches more trying to understand IT terminology than physics so put these two together and I am really struggling to get my head round what any of it means for my bike build !

I only got my 1st Android phone to have SatNav and music player on my current bike (yes, seriously) and because I resented paying a fortune for Garmin that locked me into on-going subscription charges at a time my income had just taken a big nosedive. Still haven;t worked out how to sync it to Exchange servers and neither have 2 separate IT departments of firms I do confidential work for and need access to their e-mail servers rolleyes.

My faith in IT being consistent or reliable is not great and being ignorant means wary of that which you do not understand. It's a challenge and doing my best but can only take so much in on so many different fronts at once. That said I do need to get something sensible decided on soon now if at all possible.

Hehe just my imagination running wild! Raspberry Pi is a neat little £20 credit card sized computer that runs off 5v and can run Linux off an SD card. I'm very tempted to have a go at hacking something together with my Raspberry just for the fun of it as I'm a programmer..it would be an ambitious project but maybe start simple and just get speed displaying/selectable PAS power levels and then go from there In theory, it would be possible to put the Raspberry Pi into a box and you could wire it up to a controller like Speedict does..then with a bluetooth dongle in the Raspberry's USB port, have it do pretty much everything the Speedict can do on Android handset, if you could produce the Android app. Another good thing about going down this route is that Raspberry Foundation are about to launch a mini £25 5MP high definition camera for the Raspberry which is plug and play (you can also use cheap mini USB webcams).. so that would be very handy if you wanted to record your rides, or use it for something funky like a rear-view electronic mirror on your Android handset ;-)

 

[jackhandy]

Before buying Any phone for use with speedict,check out the speedict support thread on here & maybe the one on es.
There are definite issues with bluetooth communication. Samsung & Htc seem to be problematic &they are 2 of the biggest makers of phones worldwide.
I have tried 2 samsung & 2htc and none work properly.

Personally, I don't think bluetooth is a great choice as there seem to be more shades of blue than you can shake a stick at.

 

[morphix]

Before buying Any phone for use with speedict,check out the speedict support thread on here & maybe the one on es.
There are definite issues with bluetooth communication. Samsung & Htc seem to be problematic &they are 2 of the biggest makers of phones worldwide.
I have tried 2 samsung & 2htc and none work properly.

Personally, I don't think bluetooth is a great choice as there seem to be more shades of blue than you can shake a stick at.

Good point, probably all the more reason to source a 2nd hand one then which you know in advance is tried and tested with Speedict... problem is, this technology is so new still and there's not that large a user base out yet.

I have HTC Desire so I'm hoping mine works ok, it's an earlier model I picked up second hand for £80 and supports Bluetooth 1.0/2.0 so might be lucky.

You would think more modern handsets or those problematic ones would be backwards compatible with Speedict? The whole idea of BT is to create a generic wireless comms interface standard across the industry eh. Perhaps its not so much a problem with the BT standard itself, but how the handset manufacturers software works with the hardware and Android which is the problem and limitating factor..just as with PC OS's you can only use certain BT hardware if a profile is available/hardware supported.

 

[jackhandy]

Should point out that all mine connect ok, but various problems occur with getting settings in and out.

 

[103Alex1]

Wow - masses of info there (many thanks) - taken me a while to process and reflect ! On the 2nd mobile thing I have to admit I'm not very keen and even less so on reconditioned / 2nd hand phones (nothing but headaches with these in the past). But will keep in mind as a last resort. A proven bug-free model on Speedict interface would be a must.

Yeah if you're on a tight budget maybe just wait it out and see if Speedict can come through with a firmware update that supports your handset. Maybe ask what sort of time scale you're looking at, assuming it's possible and see if it's worth waiting.

Well the budget can flex a bit but the outcomes have to be worth the money and that's what I'm weighing up. The bike, kit, specialist tools and extras are already up to about £1,400+ with lights, new tyres, chargers, mounts and further circuitry mods to go before Speedict and a new phone /case etc (which would add say yet another £180 - £200) so there comes a point where you have to question what you actually want and whether it adds genuine value or is just a gadget you won't use or need.

On lead times it's all estimates and expectations till a fully compatible bug-free firmware solution is delivered, proven and tested, isn't it ? A month can easily turn into 3 so unless they fix their firmware in next 2 weeks or so am minded to put a system which doesn't rely on fancy technology in instead. Unless the other options are too basic, it doesn't do enough yet to tempt me to part with £100 or so plus a 2nd phone - if they get a potentiometer functionality up and running I might be tempted to rip out my system and spank up the cash but at the moment that hasn't been developed so the system is of only limited attractiveness.

It doesn't actually do that much of what would really be 'added value' to what you can get from a 3-spd switch with cruise control (from my limited understanding in any event). Downloading trip data is something I can do with my mobile without Speedict and a £7 cycle computer gives you a Speedo. I'd like a fuel gauge but the 30A controller seems to be making this difficult so worst comes to worst I live without. What's left from a Speedict I need and can't get already ?

TBH unless you're mad keen to have your mobile phone deployed on controlling your bike (which has its ups and downs - especially if you lose / change your phone and then have to get a compatible replacement) I'd rather have a dedicated console or a manual system. If the technology guys sorted out devices talking to each other reliably and being free of on-going setup headaches they'd be more attractive. It all changes too fast for a stable setup to last you for a decent amount of time at the moment. Just my current thinking ... it might change but it's best to think these things through dispassionately sometimes.

What I'm thinking of doing is just putting the controller and the Speedict together in a new housing, one of those plastic hobby boxes you can buy cheap, and then just having two 8-core cables grommeted coming out of it with male DIN plug sockets on end. Then can just have throttle, PAS, brake sensor etc, all on a couple of 8-core cables cable tied down to frame with female DIN sockets at end. Then you'd just have the motor cable and some power connector from battery. That might be a tidier solution so you can just take your kit off quickly and easily with just 3 cables to unplug.

I probably won't fit a PAS sensor. Unless you have an 'intelligent' power delivery system like the Impulse coupled with a crank drive I can't see much point in a very basic PAS on a hub-drive bike. You have a throttle - and if you want a PAS buy a crank drive. (Unless I've missed something again ??)

Going to copy your points on DIN connectors over to another thread because that's gonna get technical - and probably long .

The wiring side of the Speedict looks complicated but it's not that complicated really I don't think once you sit down with the user guide and a pin-out wiring guide for your controller..I'm at the wiring stage myself now.. I think it's best to label up your controller cables with bits of white label before you hack off the connectors, as the colours can be different to wiring guides supplied by BMS and it just makes the job a lot easier.

There's masking tape with notes of what they all are on all my wires .. first thing I did when I got the controller

Check this link for more info on BH Neo. It's basically like a LCD console AND a speedict-type-thing in one device..but the LCD comes off and you can plug in a Bluetooth widget which then obviously lets you use your Android phone instead of the little LCD console that only shows basic info. I think it's a neat product and costs a bit less than Speedict or about the same, but I have no idea where you would buy it, or even if it works with other controllers...it's made by the company BH in Spain who make the Emotive brand of e-bikes.

Nice find - worth investigating for sure - but resistant to changing my controller unless it's worth it as everything else will then likely have to be changed around its capabilities and I don't think BH do 30A controllers

Keep us posted on your ideas on the Raspberry - looks like there's room in the market for more options like this and you could develop something attractive if you can get it to work well. Camera-wise, I'm saving up for a GoPro 3 HD Black Edition or similar for water and aerial sports when the weather cheers up a bit (if I have enough left after the bike is done !). Reckon it would do OK on the bike too.

 

[Scimitar]

You can pick up a v. good nick one of these for twenty quid.
Samsung Galaxy Europa GT-i5500 - OS, Camera and Verdict
In fact, they're now so cheap I bought one simply to use as a streaming music relay for my workshop, but got it unlocked the other day when my main phone turned its toes up. Total cost was still less than £30, and for that, I wouldn't mind risking it as a display unit in the bicycle, compared to the replacement cost of the other one.

 

[103Alex1]

You can pick up a v. good nick one of these for twenty quid.
Samsung Galaxy Europa GT-i5500 - OS, Camera and Verdict
In fact, they're now so cheap I bought one simply to use as a streaming music relay for my workshop, but got it unlocked the other day when my main phone turned its toes up. Total cost was still less than £30, and for that, I wouldn't mind risking it as a display unit in the bicycle, compared to the replacement cost of the other one.

Wow - good find - what type of SIM does it take (doesn't say on specs) ?

Wonder if it's good for Speedict (both HTC and Samsung named as problem phones) and whether the GPS / SatNav, which is equally important to me, is fast enough (it's really good on the S3 as the processor is so fast).

Still ideally need to find a proper bomb-proof waterproof case for it to mount on the bike ... easier for fair-weather roadies but with me it's going to get rained on and it's going to get dropped or go flying now and again. The Galaxy S2 and iPhones (a no-no due contract issues) are the only other ones I can get a case I've tested to be up to the job for as most hard mount cases I've looked at are either not properly waterproof or are throwaway 1-month wonders

 

[Scimitar]

Standard SIM, but don't know about the speed of the GPS, as haven't loaded it with anything yet.
As I say, I didn't actually buy it to use as a phone, but purely for its wi-fi streaming media playing, which it does well. Since I unlocked it, it's been functioning fine as a phone - as you would expect, really.
It's actually quite a neat little phone and I will use it more often, for work situations where the Arc-S was prone to being dropped or damaged.
The locked ones go really cheaply and unlocking costs £8 on ebay.

 

[jackhandy]

I'm using a samsung GTi5800 as bike display, as I don't want to risk the Note:

Connects ok.

Live view works, but no cadence.

Gps is next to useless on this model & does not work with the speedict.

Trip record download is sporadic, but works ok sometimes. ( Downloading records is Ssllooww - 6 to 8 minutes/hour's ride).
For some strange reason, chart view shows all readouts drop to 00 for ~11 seconds every 100 seconds - wierd.

 

[morphix]

On lead times it's all estimates and expectations till a fully compatible bug-free firmware solution is delivered, proven and tested, isn't it ? A month can easily turn into 3 so unless they fix their firmware in next 2 weeks or so am minded to put a system which doesn't rely on fancy technology in instead. Unless the other options are too basic, it doesn't do enough yet to tempt me to part with £100 or so plus a 2nd phone - if they get a potentiometer functionality up and running I might be tempted to rip out my system and spank up the cash but at the moment that hasn't been developed so the system is of only limited attractiveness.

It doesn't actually do that much of what would really be 'added value' to what you can get from a 3-spd switch with cruise control (from my limited understanding in any event). Downloading trip data is something I can do with my mobile without Speedict and a £7 cycle computer gives you a Speedo. I'd like a fuel gauge but the 30A controller seems to be making this difficult so worst comes to worst I live without. What's left from a Speedict I need and can't get already ?

TBH unless you're mad keen to have your mobile phone deployed on controlling your bike (which has its ups and downs - especially if you lose / change your phone and then have to get a compatible replacement) I'd rather have a dedicated console or a manual system. If the technology guys sorted out devices talking to each other reliably and being free of on-going setup headaches they'd be more attractive. It all changes too fast for a stable setup to last you for a decent amount of time at the moment. Just my current thinking ... it might change but it's best to think these things through dispassionately sometimes.

You make some fair points here Alex about the Speedict and whether it is value for money. It's not exactly cheap is it, so it has to work reliably and offer maximum flexibility and control options.. On the surface it looks like an incredible piece of technology that takes e-bikes forward, but I've yet to try it out so I can't say how well it works.

I think the main features I'd expect from it are the ability to control the speed from the handset (like a virtual sliding throttle), preset PAS levels buttons, cruise control options, and an "auto" PAS levels mode which automatically adjusts assistance based on GPS terrain info from mobile phone would be nice for maximum battery performance and fitness goals etc.

The GPS side, data logging and stats on journey trips is always useful but as you say, there's apps in Android that already do this for cycling like Maverick which will show accurate speed, distance, average trip speed, and even allow you to upload your journey to a map online freely (also allows you to plan journeys with SatNav, just enter in point A and B postcodes and you'll get some idea of journey time).

What Speedict brings to the data logging (I think), is the data on your battery life and ability to work out how far you can go at different power levels.. if it doesn't at present, that would be a useful future feature.

I do think much of this can be achieved relatively easily with a Raspberry Pi with relative minor electronics interfacing, and the native Linux Python language could be used to provide hardware communication with the handset over Bluetooth. This would offer a lot of flexibility and better support on the Bluetooth side for handsets as you can easily change the Bluetooth dongle and settings.

I'm not too confident about making an Android app, but there may also be apps out there which could be used or adapted, and I know there's services and app development platforms online which allow you to make basic apps, so I'm willing to give it a try..maybe if I can get the basic interface working on the hardware side, someone who is an Android app coder might be willing to collaborate with me on that side and develop a proper app.

I've just taken my controller apart (KU63 very small one) and it does fit nicely into a small plastic box alongside the Raspberry Pi.. I think I will buy another KU63 and the Model A Raspberry Pi and start hacking around with it and we'll see if anything interesting develops

 

[103Alex1]

The cellphone on mount under a protective case means doing stuff on a touchscreen whilst riding (even using eGloves, the conductive pads of which lasted about 4 weeks before losing effectiveness) is pretty much a theory rather than a practical possibility.... in anything other than fingerless Summer mitts on a warm dry day.

So varying speed whilst riding over the touchscreen or using a slider bar for virtual potentiometer isn't going to work well in my opinion unless there was some attached device that's more tactile.

The 'auto-PAS' is a nice theory too but completely dependent on accurate altimeter/GPS (notoriously hard to read accurately). I can't see either coming through in the next 6 months in a user-friendly form to be honest.

Am basically concluding the device isn't really worth having at the moment unless you want the trip data outputs wich you can get on your cellphone for already pretty much for no extra cost and you can get a cycle computer to store miles travelled when battery is changed so can work out cumulative battery use and likely residual life pretty easily working back from that. A half-decent voltmeter and knowledge of your bike's performance capabilities gives you a good idea how far you can go on a charge. Or so I'd have thought anyhow.

 

[jackhandy]

Lunchbox for Rasberry pi.....

***Pi Rpi *** Raspberry Pi case - 2.88 delivered @Ebay / ChristGift Shop - Hot UK Deals