DFT consultation on increase of 250W limit to 500W

[flecc]

Without pedalling, you need more power from the motor to avoid it stalling out and burning on steep hills. 250w is not enough for that. Maybe that's what they figured out during these scooter trials.

They've already taken care of that by saying at the outset that the e-scooters can have 350 watts for the trial, the same as in the USA and Europe. So I don't think power was the issue, as I said, it's the throttle that was the stumbling block since they wanted to include e-scooters into EAPC regulations which prevents fully acting throttles.

I'm certain it wont lead to further restrictions for EAPCs like registration and 3rd party insurance since this move is intended to increase cycling, not impede it. More likely after the change is much harsher law for those who continue to break it, despite the easing.
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[Az.]

I fear that as previously, they will not complete the necessary amendments for a tidy outcome.

I agree, chances for that are very slim considering they can't even produce proposal in logical and consistent way.

It is a part of pre election brexit we can do it show off called "smarter regulation to grow the economy"

Smarter regulation to grow the economy

www.gov.uk

 

[Nealh]

To me it looks like we might see changes in EPAC categories, current 250w rated EAPC's without throttle as per the EAPC's already sold. Then 500w rated EPAC's with throttle but likely with some regulation.
It will though if goes ahead be a bit of a dogs dinner , we will have rated EAPC's with more power then S pedelecs though with the caveat of being speed restricted.
The dogs dinner will also lead to those who will see a chance to derestrict the 500w bikes for 30 mph and we will see more hot rod bikes of 1500 - 2000w mix with pedestrians & traffic.

Personally I'm not against throttles or the 500w rated motor but think they should carry some regulation, esp with quicker acceleration and mixing with shared use paths.


Don't think the motorcylce trade will be too amused.

 

[Nealh]

One thing raising the motor rating will do is to allow a wider range of hubs to be used, very few are sold as 250w . Most are sold as 350w or 500w to suit the US and othe rmarkets, this would make the likes of the AKM128c a much more viable motor to use of r alot more users. It has been a favourite of mine to use and know d8veh as well .
And finally it would bring the Swizzbee to within legal power limits but not on the speed side.

 

[flecc]

Then 500w rated EPAC's with throttle but likely with some regulation.
It will though if goes ahead be a bit of a dogs dinner , we will have rated EAPC's with more power then S pedelecs though with the caveat of being speed restricted.

No I think they are making it quite clear that EAPC's are changing to 500 watts with throttle if this is adopted. They wont have more power than speed pedelecs though, since they already have the 500 watt limit, changed to that some years ago.

Don't think the motorcycle trade will be too amused.

That's for sure, though they might respond by becoming EAPC dealers as well! That would take many of them back to their origins, the business I worked for back in the 1950s was a Cycle and Motorcycle Company Ltd, evolving into Motorcycles only.
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[StuartsProjects]

To me it looks like we might see chnages in EPAC categories, current 250w rated EAPC's without throttle as per the EAPC's already sold. Then 500w rated EPAC's with throttle but likely with some regulation.

Indeed, maybe the 'regulation' is already planned.

Would the current lot in power be less than truthfull obout their intentions in order to appeal to the electorate ?

 

[Az.]

After consideration I will vote against both proposals. They will probably do what they planned anyway.

 

[Wayners]

Will stall the market if people wait for higher power bikes and throttle.
What will happen to all the bikes that nobody will wants?

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Won't most of the motors that are currently 250w rated also be able to be 500w rated ? People will want a 500w rated motor won't they ? Does Wisper use the akm128 ? Surely they would just need the manufacturer to rate it as 500w without changing anything on the bike (apart from the sticker/laser etching)

 

[portals]

I believe that the reason there are so many higher powered ebikes out there is because 250W is too anaemic if you live anywhere with steep hills (this is a separate issue from a bike being limited to 15.5mph).

If 500W had been an option when I was researching then there is a reasonable chance I'd have bought one (rather than the more powerful one I did buy), as I would have peace of mind that the motor would get me up steep hills at a decent pace.

The increase also seems sensible for deliveries on trikes etc. as mentioned in a post above so they can carry more load.

 

[portals]

If they're knowledgeable enough, they might copy the drone regulation, where the drone has to be marked with an ID number registered to the owner, which works pretty well.

Yes, I just got my flyerID (free, valid 5yrs) and operatorID (tenner, valid 1yr), from CAA for my drones (I have a new 'pro' drone coming tomorrow!), this would on paper seem a potential sensible approach.

The 'owner/operator' of the ebike eg: you or the company you're working for would require an operatorID and this must be displayed on bike eg: a sticker somewhere or inside a compartment that can be accessed without a tool.

Anyone who wants to ride the ebike need a flyerID - or cyclingID and it's a basic 40 question online test on the basics and safety to get one. If you're harassed by clowns in fancy dress then you can produce and they are on their merry way sharpish.

 

[soundwave]

i really dont think you get the 250w limit and 15mph law.

my bosch bike has a cx motor with a 20 amp controller under the 15mph limit there is no limit to the motor power until 15.5mph.

at 20 amps under 15mph this motor is pulling 800w and why adding a dongle wont add any more power to it as the controller is locked and the faster i go the less i get esp over 35mph.

going up steep hills a dongle would not make any difference at all and eddie pj did 10 miles up a steep mountain and killed a 500w bosch batt in ten miles.

 

[portals]

i really dont think you get the 250w limit and 15mph law.

my bosch bike has a cx motor with a 20 amp controller under the 15mph limit there is no limit to the motor power until 15.5mph.

at 20 amps under 15mph this motor is pulling 800w and why adding a dongle wont add any more power to it as the controller is locked and the faster i go the less i get esp over 35mph.

going up steep hills a dongle would not make any difference at all and eddie pj did 10 miles up a steep mountain and killed a 500w bosch batt in ten miles.

Hmm, don't really understand what you're on about here...

I can limit my 1500W rear hub to 15mph if I so choose but I'll get to 15mph faster than 250W and going up steep road hills (never do offroad, I even avoid grass if I can...), I will zoom up hill at 15mph with 1500W (capable of over 1800W peak), 250W - no chance...500W - more of a chance.

 

[soundwave]

bosch motor 800w under 15mph the power level ie amps can use them all.

thus why i can remove the speed limit but not up the amps

m8s bbshd at 30a is like a rocket ship with a throttle

 

[guerney]

If those changes are simply grafted onto existing legislation with nothing else, I think it'd be brilliant! Pedelecs with 500W rated motors and legal throttles would increase their appeal, which may probably prevent people buying dangerous escooter death machines. Everyone including ill and old would be able to ride an ebike. Conversionists will benefit first. People will soon be rumbling overamped cargo bikes along pavements and roads with 500W motors at 2kw, doing useful work. City smog would be reduced everywhere but China. Such earth shattering changes will usher in a new wheeled 1000 year golden age! And I for one can't wait! My quick to attach throttle is ready to deploy - it's quick release too, in case those utterly useless desperate for votes set of swivelly eyed losers rearranging the chairs on the Titanic change their tiny mad ickle minds.

 

[lenny]

thus why i can remove the speed limit but not up the amps

 

[afzal]

It seems Canada & Australia (at least New South Wales) currently have 500W as the limit

 

[lenny]

It seems Canada & Australia (at least New South Wales) currently have 500W as the limit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_States

 

[Nealh]

Woosh and Wisper as well as other UK brands will mostly stick to 250w rated hubs as other wise sales overseas see will be affected, I guess they could have two lines of motors .

 

[Az.]

With no legal limit on power provided by controller I see no need for 500W rated motors on the market. One can cross Alps on bike with 250W rating, so why one would need a 500W? It is nothing more than a cosmetic change in desperate attempt by government to show that they are trying to do something after Brexit. They of course won't admit it could have been done 10 years ago.
Personally I don't think fat, overpowered e-bikes should mix with little children, elderly and dog walkers. It is nothing but asking for trouble.

...and of course they still leave converted bikes in legal limbo.