Defeated by a hill

[RobF]

I've just completed the Durham Big Ride and am disappointed to have been defeated by one of the hills.

The ride from Durham City towards Consett and back is very lumpy, particularly on the way out.

The hateful incline that did for me was Iveston Bank.

I got most of the way up, but there's a switchback and the gradient was just too much.

Might have managed it at the start, but not at 12 miles in.

I was on the Rose/Bosch and, as is often the case, I forgot to lock the front fork for the climb.

I wonder if that would have made much difference?

The lowest ratio on the Alfine 11 is not very low, so I reckon a proper granny gear would help a lot.

I could tinker with the gearing, but losing some more weight and getting fitter is a better - and cheaper - solution.

Other than that, an enjoyable, well-organised ride during which I was only called a cheat three or four times.

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PS. Apologies to Melissa for a non-repetitive post about a highish-end bike.

 

[Artstu]

Well done Rob, I take it you were in Turbo at the failure point? locking the forks does help for honking for sure. Is this the right bit? Strava Segment | Iveston if so I imagine I could climb it at circa 15 mph given the advantage I have on most local segments.

 

[RobF]

Well done Rob, I take it you were in Turbo at the failure point? locking the forks does help for honking for sure. Is this the right bit? Strava Segment | Iveston if so I imagine I could climb it at circa 15 mph given the advantage I have on most local segments.

Thanks for doing the research - I'm fairly sure that's it.

I'd struggle to control the bike around the switchback at 15mph, even assuming I had the power.

I was up with some of the fitter riders at that point and a few of those were pushing.

 

[103Alex1]

Thanks for doing the research - I'm fairly sure that's it.

I'd struggle to control the bike around the switchback at 15mph, even assuming I had the power.

I was up with some of the fitter riders at that point and a few of those were pushing.

It doesn't look from the stats as if it should be a deal-breaker .. is the length of the hill longer than those you usually take on ?

I used to struggle on long hills (albeit more in the 17-20% range) with the Kalkhoff but not since the software upgrade and moving over to sport configuration and using max power. The 1st and 2nd gears on the Alfine are low enough to easily handle over 20% slopes so am wondering if it's more down to the Bosch system.

 

[Artstu]

so am wondering if it's more down to the Bosch system

It certainly isn't the Bosch system Alex, on this segment into a fairly brisk westerly wind I've done it at 10 mph in 7.01 mins. When you consider how fit second placed man Tejvan Pettinger actually is, it shows how good the Bosch system is.

 

[103Alex1]

Must have been those bouncing forks then .

 

[RobF]

It doesn't look from the stats as if it should be a deal-breaker .. is the length of the hill longer than those you usually take on ?

I used to struggle on long hills (albeit more in the 17-20% range) with the Kalkhoff but not since the software upgrade and moving over to sport configuration and using max power. The 1st and 2nd gears on the Alfine are low enough to easily handle over 20% slopes so am wondering if it's more down to the Bosch system.

First on my bike is not low, you tend to climb at 6-7mph without spinning the pedals very fast.

The hill is not long, but it is very sharp.

After climbing several steep ones to get to it, there wasn't a lot of power left in my legs.

Sounds a bit feeble after only 12 miles, but two blobs had gone out on the battery meter which shows how much power the bike had used even with me assisting as much as possible.

 

[Artstu]

Must have been those bouncing forks then .

Actually I didn't have my forks locked for the climb, I was sat down and not really going for it,

 

[Streethawk]

I never lock my forks out, unless you're standing up mashing the pedals it makes no noticeable difference, even with soft long travel mountain bike forks.

 

[103Alex1]

First on my bike is not low, you tend to climb at 6-7mph without spinning the pedals very fast.

Interesting ... with Impulse / Alfine 11 you definitely don't want to spin exceptionally fast to climb steep hills easier. It's much more effective with slower spin and steady pedal force which draws out the power. Sharper hills really hammer battery and even more so the faster you climb ..

I've a couple of hills like that round where I use the Agattu. Usually climb them at about 10-12mph (without giving it stick) in 2nd which is similar to what Artstu gets from his bike with a derailleur. If I'm cream crackered and beyond making an effort it would drop to about 9mph.

Got an almost identical hill where I use the Trek. This climbs at 15-16mph on big chainring and 6th out of 9 up the rear cassette with a determined spin. Downhill gravity-assisted knobbly-tyred record on the same segment so far is 44.9mph before I ran out of derailleur gears - the fastest roadie time recorded on Strava with their skinny tyres is 46.8mph .

After climbing several steep ones to get to it, there wasn't a lot of power left in my legs.

Sounds a bit feeble after only 12 miles, but two blobs had gone out on the battery meter which shows how much power the bike had used even with me assisting as much as possible.

If you don't do lots of hills back-to-back on a regular basis over longer rides you just get out of condition. Try again a couple of days later and it's usually much easier

On the forks thing if I'm honest I've never noticed any discernable impact on speed if they're not locked out. It feels mighty 'spongy' on the tarmac though !

Well done for doing the ride btw ... is it going to be "The Beast" next Sunday ?

 

[RobF]

Some wise words (above) from Alex.

My condition - or lack of it - is a big part in my inability to make that climb.

I don't like hills, not least because I'm a very cautious descender so spend most of my time warming the brakes on the way down.

This means even on a powered bike I tend to avoid them, so I've not had much steep hill training, or practice on how best to extract the last ounce of power from the bike.

I was surprised how quickly the battery ran down when climbing a lot, and I forgot to mention a stiff headwind until about half way.

Two blobs down on the meter after 12 miles, but I only used one more blob for the 14 or so miles to complete the ride - tailwind and mostly flat or a gentle decline.

I won't be doing the Beast ride, partly because my battery wouldn't last the route.

I see the first bit is the same as the ride I did, including that hill.

It's tempting to tag along for those few miles just to have another go at it.

Another reason not to do the full Beast is I tend to lose interest after three or four hours in the saddle.

A longer ride is more of an adventure, but I'd rather do a couple of 20 or so mile rides than one 50-miler.

 

[Artstu]

This chart is always interesting, assuming we have the sprockets and cogs as in the chart your 1st is a bit lower than 1st on my 8-speed hub.
As you say hills really hammer the battery, I see half my 400 wh battery vanish on that 1 mile climb I linked to earlier. Steep hills are unavoidable where I live, if it wasn't for the hills I'd probably still be riding unpowered.

edit. with the 11-speed hub you do have the option to lower the gears and still keep a reasonable top gear if you need to.

 

[RobF]

This chart is always interesting, assuming we have the sprockets and cogs as in the chart your 1st is a bit lower than 1st on my 8-speed hub.
As you say hills really hammer the battery, I see half my 400 wh battery vanish on that 1 mile climb I linked to earlier. Steep hills are unavoidable where I live, if it wasn't for the hills I'd probably still be riding unpowered.

edit. with the 11-speed hub you do have the option to lower the gears and still keep a reasonable top gear if you need to.

Loads of complaints on the web from unpowered bike riders about first on the Alfine 11 being too high.

It shouldn't be a problem on a decent powered bike, so the slightly uncomfortable truth for me is that I have some way to go in terms of building fitness.

Going back to the Alfine 11, my mate Vince the bike mechanic had one on his Dawes tourer.

He fitted a bigger rear sprocket, but still couldn't get the ride right so has now sold the hub and gone back to derailleurs.

The only positive point was he got about £400 for the hub and both wheels, so was pleased with that.

A bigger rear sprocket makes some sense for me, partly because I rarely use the gears above sixth, so it would bring a few of those into play.

I looked into this a while ago, Vince told me I have the biggest Alfine 11 specific sprocket - 19 or 20 teeth from memory.

But Nexus sprockets will fit, so it would be simple enough to go 21 or 22.

I've seen several different sized front sprockets for Bosch bikes on the web, so another way would be to get a smaller one of those.

 

[Ettica]

but two blobs had gone out on the battery meter

I love that phrase, ta Rob

 

[Artstu]

I've been tempted to up the gearing on my bike, I find myself in 7th and 8th gear an awful lot, wishing I had a couple more gears to go at. I'll probably end up with an 11-speed hub in the not too distant future. Certainly derailleurs are more efficent, But with the Bosch I think having a hub and the wider chain is the more sensible choice. and no more wheel moving for me now.

 

[RobF]

I've been tempted to up the gearing on my bike, I find myself in 7th and 8th gear an awful lot, wishing I had a couple more gears to go at. I'll probably end up with an 11-speed hub in the not too distant future. Certainly derailleurs are more efficent, But with the Bosch I think having a hub and the wider chain is the more sensible choice. and no more wheel moving for me now.

That chain tensioner looks neat, but I don't understand why a hub gear should need one.

 

[Artstu]

That chain tensioner looks neat, but I don't understand why a hub gear should need one.

I've found that my chain needs tensioning every 400 miles or so, I wasn't keen on having to keep moving the wheel in the alloy drop outs. So now all I have to move is the pivot point on the fixed tensioner. I think your Rose has drop outs that are separate from the frame, probably a better idea than on my bike, also the rear stays on my bike aren't the same on either side, so judging wheel centring was tricky, then there was the issue of tyre to mudguard clearance as the wheel moved further and further back.

Mainly it boils down to all that power being transmitted through the chain, dragging around 100 kgs up the steepest inclines around.

 

[BAH48]

Got to 52 miles on Saturday and 5800' of ascent and the batteries ran out. Two of us on similar Bosch bikes, the two batteries ran out within 50' of each other - spooky!
Final ride was 58 miles and 6100' - felt a bit tired that night. Had to pedal quite a lot!

 

[RobF]

The chainstay on the Rose has two enclosed slots, and the dropout is a separate metal plate.

Neat enough, but I suspect if the plate was mounted for a much shorter chain the tyre would foul the mudguard.

 

[Artstu]

Got to 52 miles on Saturday and 5800' of ascent and the batteries ran out. Two of us on similar Bosch bikes, the two batteries ran out within 50' of each other - spooky!
Final ride was 58 miles and 6100' - felt a bit tired that night. Had to pedal quite a lot!

Is that on just one 400 wh battery each?