Death Threats For Online Vigilante Cyclist

[HarryB]

Newspaper motoring columnists always seem to be the worst Hal, and I pride myself on getting a onetime motoring correspondent kicked off the South London Guardian group newspapers over his phobic anti-cycling stance.

As for Clarkson, I don't take him seriously since, having no other talent, he does what he does only for the money. If being green paid better he'd have gone in that direction.
.

I don't take him seriously because I see him as a comedian heading up a light entertainment programme. Now as for for well known out of work actors slagging off all cyclists.....I worry that it does give some legitimacy to the anti-cycling brigade. It is all very British though, nobody likes a queue jumper or those not following the letter of the law.

By the way the Top Gear studio audience is quite a cross section of people of all ages with plenty of women as well. Maybe the 70+age group is under represented I think there is a two year waiting list (could be longer) to get on to the show so it must be doing something right.

 

[flecc]

Mmmm. Cross section of the younger half maybe, 20s and 30s dominant. I don't see too many of 50 up there. As you say, light entertainment, though I find the formula is spent now and it's getting increasingly silly and appearing a bit desperate for ideas now.

TV just isn't a good medium for anything sensible on cars really, any one car or type of car are not mass media subjects. Magazines do it so much better, and the same goes for bikes too.
.

 

[HarryB]

I do agree with Nigel Havers in that cyclist should abide by the law (stop at red lights and stay off the pavement) - after all there’s a whole section in the High Way Code specifically addressing the law applying to them.


.

The problem is that to stay within the letter of the law is dangerous. The highway code is not written for us it is written for powered vehicles. For example when stopping at a red light it would be madness to stay behind the white line. Cross the white line and you are committing an offence. Your choice, what do you do? I break the law and come as far forward as possible 1. to be seen and 2. to get out of the way as fast as possible. Look what happened to David Cameron and his mostly normal cycling.

You are riding up to a pinch point (where are the road planners in this debate) and behind you is lorry approaching. When this happened to me I thought he would wait as there wasn't enough room for the both of us. I think being clipped by a lorry is pretty unpleasant. Next time I take the pavement if there are no pedestrians - sorry.

 

[HarryB]

Mmmm. Cross section of the younger half maybe, 20s and 30s dominant. I don't see too many of 50 up there. As you say, light entertainment, though I find the formula is spent now and it's getting increasingly silly and appearing a bit desperate for ideas now.

TV just isn't a good medium for anything sensible on cars really, any one car or type of car are not mass media subjects. Magazines do it so much better, and the same goes for bikes too.
.

I can only say that what you see of the audience on TV is not what is in the audience in reality. eg there is always a 'pretty' woman standing behind Jeremy Clarkson when he does a link....I wonder why?

 

[Footie]

Next time I take the pavement if there are no pedestrians - sorry.

BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Pavement death cyclist sentenced

The pavement was clear untill Gary Green came out of his garden gate to get into his car.
.

 

[flecc]

Abiding by the law is easy to say but often not safe or sensible. I will also take momentarily to the pavement when there's no pedestrians anywhere on that stretch, either for safety, or to aid a motorist approaching from the rear if we are arriving at a parked car at the same time. That way we both keep rolling in safety.

I always stop at red lights, but at one which is followed by a very long pinch point, I take off fast a few seconds before the light changes from red. That gets me through that long pinch point safely. The alternative would either risk me being crushed or hold up the convoy of cars behind me as I cycled through, so once again a technical breach helping the motorist as well as me.

I agree that cyclist's attitude often leaves much to be desired, and I'm as angry at some of them as drivers can be, since they give me a bad name too, unfair since I do my best to be helpful to drivers at all times.
.

 

[flecc]

BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Pavement death cyclist sentenced

The pavement was clear untill Gary Green came out of his garden gate to get into his car.
.

Saw it originally Footie, but there's a world of difference between sensibly momentarily using the outside of a wide empty pavement with open views across the gardens and doing what that idiot did, racing downhill on a very narrow pavement where he couldn't possibly see whether it was safe or not. Having seen film on TV of the stretch concerned, I would never have ridden on it anyway, it's obviously not suitable at any time.

As the old saying goes, laws are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.
.

 

[Footie]

Saw it originally Footie, but there's a world of difference between sensibly momentarily using the outside of a wide empty pavement with open views across the gardens and doing what that idiot did, racing downhill on a very narrow pavement where he couldn't possibly see whether it was safe or not. Having seen film on TV of the stretch concerned, I would never have ridden on it anyway, it's obviously not suitable at any time.

As the old saying goes, laws are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.
.

Sounds like a clever insult
I don't loose any sleep over the fact that other cyclists deliberately break the law and put peoples safety at risk just because they feel the law does not apply to them at that moment in time.
In the end, if someone hurts someone while riding on the pavement the law will throw the book at them - and justly so.
.

 

[HarryB]

BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Pavement death cyclist sentenced

The pavement was clear untill Gary Green came out of his garden gate to get into his car.
.

I don't get it - are you saying that I will kill a pedestrian?

 

[Footie]

Possibly, yes.
.

 

[HarryB]

Possibly, yes.
.

If I kill a pedestrian, god forbid, it won't happen on the pavement it will happen on the road. Even on the road it is highly unlikely, more likely that I will be killed by a lorry or dragged 9 minutes kicking and screaming under the wheels of a london bendy bus etc - you get the picture?

 

[HarryB]

As the old saying goes, laws are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.
.

Quite an old saying and I first heard it in Reach for the Sky with Kenneth Moore as Dougie Bader - set in the mid 20's I suppose.

 

[flecc]

S

In the end, if someone hurts someone while riding on the pavement the law will throw the book at them - and justly so.
.

On pavements I fully agree with that sentiment, as it should be.

Where I live, as in many areas, we have numerous shared paths, many just reallocated pavements, sometimes with a white line and lanes marked for bikes and walkers, and that muddies this issue completely. The problem that most cyclists see with these is that the pedestrians almost never observe the rules, wandering all over the place. I just slow to near walking pace when approaching a walker to minimise any danger, but the law doesn't say I should.

Again this illustrates why laws alone are not enough, common sense has to be applied either in extending or decreasing the scope of any law. In other words, the spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law, in this case the spirit being the intention to protect pedestrians.

Just as doing less than the law requires in momentarily using the pavement for my own safety is sensible, it's necessary to do more than the law requires at times.
.

 

[Footie]

HarryB:
Reach for the Sky – very good film.
Kenneth Moore – liked him as an actor (really liked him in Father Brown).
Dougie Bader – someone else who liked taking risks. Lost both his legs when he crashed his plane while messing about over a runway.
Just take care and stay ahead of those london bendy bus'

flecc:
Didn’t realise your pavements are doubling up as cycle paths, that would be confusing

In the end there’s only ebikes
.

 

[HarryB]

Bendy buses - difficult to keep ahead of when they have a full head of steam (driver heading towards the next cuppa tea perhaps). One of these guys overtook me and immediately started to pull in. This bus went on and on and on and every second getting nearer and nearer. Goodness they are long, luckily I had taken a good position on the road which gave me some room. Nearly gave me a heart attack though

By the way who said this?

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users."

 

[flecc]

flecc:
Didn’t realise your pavements are doubling up as cycle paths, that would be confusing

.

The daftest bit is that the half for the bikes, being at the edge of the road, contains all the lamp posts, bus stops, post boxes, salt bins and other street furniture in the way, so we're often forced to swerve onto the pedestrian half anyway.

Yes, the bus queue stands in the cycle lane.
.

 

[Footie]

I have no idea - But sounds like someone who thinks as you do.
.

 

[flecc]

I have no idea - But sounds like someone who thinks as you do.
.

Here you are Footie, it's actually the law!

"On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.

"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)"

 

[Footie]

Looks like you found a loop hole. So the law supports cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so.

Point taken and well done you two
.

 

[nin26]

I can only say that what you see of the audience on TV is not what is in the audience in reality. eg there is always a 'pretty' woman standing behind Jeremy Clarkson when he does a link....I wonder why?

Ah-ha, I can answer that. Me and my other half got free tickets to go and see Top Gear last year. The audience is genuine - however, the floor engineers re-shuffle the audience in shot before filming a scene because the target audience of Top Gear is men - and men don't want to watch middle-aged men picking their noses in the background. If you wathc closely, you'll also notice that most of the audience is looking upwards - they're watching what's happening on LCD screen dotted around the studio because you can't see much from in the audience.