Death of the derailleur?

[Deus]

Shimano Gearbox patent

 

[Fordulike]

Promising news. A sealed gearbox would be a great move forward to lower bike maintenance.
Who isn't sick of removing bits of jungle from their derailleur

 

[Andy-Mat]

Promising news. A sealed gearbox would be a great move forward to lower bike maintenance.
Who isn't sick of removing bits of jungle from their derailleur

I remember reading recently, somewhere here on Pedelec that the gearboxes are not maintenance free, that they need oil changes at 4,000 KMs., plus some other negatives...which I have forgotten.
Its not all "Hunky Dory" apparently....
I remember thinking, "great that I have a Derailleur system from Shimano", as have had on all my bikes for about 40 odd years!
I am sure that the person who was negative but informative can repeat what he wrote for us all....
But I really don't know "what is best for everyone", as I haven't ridden a bike with a gearbox for over 40 or more years.
Plus I am very happy with the mechanical changes that have made "Derailleur system" so much easier to use, than it was in the 1950s, when I first tried it!
The modern version is easy to adjust, easy to clean, easy to lubricate, easier to replace parts, parts are really cheap, and no need to employ a bike shop mechanic each and every time, of which the next one is 20 miles away from home!
I am staying with the Derailleur system.....for good!
Regards
Andy

 

[vfr400]

Promising news. A sealed gearbox would be a great move forward to lower bike maintenance.
Who isn't sick of removing bits of jungle from their derailleur

I guess I need to set my horizons wider. The only time I ever had to remove anything from my derailleur in around 25000 miles was when I tried that White Lightning chain lube, which completely gummed up the derailleur and took ages to get out.

I think that a gearbox arrangement is perfect for people that ride off road. It's going to save the derailleur from getting knocked and jammed. Call me old fashioned if you want, but I can't see how that gearbox offers any advantage to a normal bike user. For bike manufacturers, I can see that it would make their frame manufacture simpler and assembly quicker, as the BB and gears come as a ready made assembly that only need to be bolted to a simple plate on the bottom of the frame. No doubt they'll market it as the lastest trumping feature that every oneupmanship biker will want to kill anyone to have it on his bike.

 

[wheeliepete]

Blimey, I've only just discovered the delights of a Rolhoff Speedhub

 

[thirteen]

The derailleur ain't broke ...

 

[KirstinS]

If hubs like the alfine havent then I doubt this will either

Blimey, I've only just discovered the delights of a Rolhoff Speedhub

Nice! Is the only thing I'd change my alfine 8 for

 

[Ocsid]

A natural step would be to integrate a "motor" into the package.
Then, with a Gates belt it all becomes to me very appealing, at least in concept.

 

[flecc]

Shimano Gearbox patent

This is very interesting and has huge potential.

The biggest advantage derailleurs have is their outstanding efficiency, due to there being no gears. A deraileur simply provides a choice of single speed chain drives, each having the near perfect efficiency of a chain drive.

Shimano's new proposition isn't a gearbox, it's simply another derailleur system but enclosed for longevity.

That fact alone should give very long life, given the decades that the old Sunbeam oilbath chaincase lasted, the chains and sprockets needing hardly any attention in all versions from 1897 until relatively modern times.

Shimano adding ultra low friction coatings to this known good enclosure formula could be a very real advance.
.

 

[KirstinS]

A natural step would be to integrate a "motor" into the package.
Then, with a Gates belt it all becomes to me very appealing, at least in concept.

I would agree. Except id worry that's simply to much going on in one place. A thing goes wrong = nightmare to fix.

 

[EddiePJ]

I think that I'll just stick to the trusty derailleur. Water and grime can destroy anything when riding off road, and I'd sooner just replace bottom bracket bearings and jockey wheel bearings every now and then, than be faced with who knows what with the above system.

I can't recall the make right now, but there is a German built eMTB that uses a pinion gearbox linked to belt drive and rear hub motor. I'll try to find it later.

Found it. They make a full suspension version as well.

 

[soundwave]

Continental Bicycle Systems - Drive Units

With the 48V Revolution, our system encompasses a world-first innovation.

www.continental-bicycle-systems.com

 

[KirstinS]

. Water and grime can destroy anything
View attachment 32845View attachment 32846

Certainly true. I destroyed a pretty new chain and sprocket in a few miles on the beach at super low tide

at least a new sprocket for alfine is only a tenner

 

[anotherkiwi]

I managed to pick a few branches up in the derailleur on the trike last winter. One time I dropped the chain and pulled off the main road only to pick up a bunch of long grass and drop it a second time when going back on the road... Even that experience isn't enough to make me want to drop the derailleur.

My un-powered trike wheel is sitting beside me as I type waiting to be tested with a new cassette that has 705% gear range. Even pinion doesn't have that gear range! If road testing proves successful I'll start thinking about replacing the freewheel motor with a CST one.

Repeating for clarity: The 26:42 granny is for getting home with an empty battery, depending on route I take there are >14% to 17% gradients to climb and 26:40 is too uncomfortable at my age. With power 36:34 is plenty low enough, especially with +900 controller Watts on tap

 

[vfr400]

A derailleur is hard to beat. In 6 years and 5000 miles, I had to replace one chainwheel that was worn before I started and one chain. I also had to replace a gear cable that was well-used before I started, but that would probably happen with any system. In that time, I've never cleaned the derailleur except when I gummed it up with White Lightning chain lubricant about 5 years ago; I've never had to adjust anything, except when I fitted the new cable; and the only other maintenance I've done is a squirt of gear oil, now down to about 3 times a year because I ride less in the rain than I used to.

I'm not counting the time I dropped a small magnet and couldn't find it until I rode the bike and found the gears jumping because the magnet was stuck to the cassette.

 

[Benjahmin]

I agree. For simplicity, ease of maintenance and obvious visual prompts for any repair, if needed, they can't be beaten.
It seems to me that the reason a lot of people don't understand them is because they need so little attention.
For me, cycling is about simplicity. If I can't fix it in my shed (the kitchen actually much to the chagrin of SWHBO) then I don't really want it - I have enough trouble/expense with me car!

 

[Fordulike]

I think that a gearbox arrangement is perfect for people that ride off road. It's going to save the derailleur from getting knocked and jammed.

You got it in a nutshell bud. My riding consists of, sometimes, extremely muddy conditions, which punishes my derailleur. I agree, probably very little advantage to the average rider.

I also think the likes of a BBS02 or BBSHD would kill a gearbox fairly rapidly.

 

[vfr400]

The gearbox won't work with a BBS** because the pedal shaft would be integrated, i.e. there will be no bottom bracket tube. instead it'll be a flat plate or more likely a couple of lugs on the frame. I guess the frames will look like a frame for a Bosch motor without the motor. In the patent, the whole arrangement looks quite sizeable. It'll be interesting to see how they integrate it with a motor, which will require the addition of the motor, primary reduction system, electronics and sensors.

 

[Fordulike]

The gearbox won't work with a BBS** because the pedal shaft would be integrated, i.e. there will be no bottom bracket tube. instead it'll be a flat plate or more likely a couple of lugs on the frame. I guess the frames will look like a frame for a Bosch motor without the motor. In the patent, the whole arrangement looks quite sizeable. It'll be interesting to see how they integrate it with a motor, which will require the addition of the motor, primary reduction system, electronics and sensors.

Whoops, schoolboy error

 

[Tarka]

The old Sturmy Archer 3 speed would do well these days with pedelec assistance.
Not everyone needs massive gear selection.