Dealers offering loan bikes and pick up for warranty bikes

[Artstu]

Put simply the back wheel needs adjusting after about 6 miles? and it needs adjusting because X has happened. X being the chain has loosened? I can't imagine the chain stretching (wearing) that quickly. So is the back wheel moving?

Is Impluse like a Bosch rather than a Panasonic?

 

[103Alex1]

Put simply the back wheel needs adjusting after about 6 miles? and it needs adjusting because X has happened. X being the chain has loosened? I can't imagine the chain stretching (wearing) that quickly. So is the back wheel moving?

Is Impluse like a Bosch rather than a Panasonic?

^ Basically yes. Bike total mileage 533. Kept insisting it was down to my not tightening the nuts enough but this is simply not the case. It isn't possible to tighten them any more with a ratchet spanner and if I did somehow manage it with a long-leveraged tool it would probably do damage plus require workshop-level tools to get wheel off which is not acceptable on a bike - as you couldn't carry this out and around on the road as a matter of course.

Had new washers etc. still no joy and there's no spinout damage to the dropouts that could case the wheel to move in any case. The wheel is only about 1/2 way along the dropouts when the chain is tight. So at the moment all this points to the ends not being properly aligned / parallel - which is basically a frame defect that is likely an isolated issue with the bike.

Impulse is more like Bosch than Panasonic I guess - but it is different programming.

 

[Artstu]

That is certainly a weird one, I'll make the assumption that the axle is slipping despite yours and the serrated washers best efforts to keep it in place, or you have a super soft chain that wears really quickly, It can't really be anything else?

I've adjusted my chain once. I'm not too keen on having to keep moving the wheel so may put a tensioner on at some point, currently they only make one for vertical drop-outs, so the tab that sits in the slot needs cutting off and rewelding on. I was surprised to find it isn't sprung at the pivot point, and is actually adjusted at that hinge point, easier than moving the wheel though.

 

[trex]

Alex, I found that sometimes a nylon washer helps the axle nuts grip better.

 

[RoadieRoger]

Alex clean all the parts and use non permanent threadlock . My rear wheel axle nut on my Aprilia 250 Leonardo Scooter has to be used only once after Torquing to about 90 lbs.ft . They were £10 each years ago and took time to come on a back order . I bought a £3 tube of thread lock and it does the trick . Give it a try .

 

[103Alex1]

Alex clean all the parts and use non permanent threadlock . My rear wheel axle nut on my Aprilia 250 Leonardo Scooter has to be used only once after Torquing to about 90 lbs.ft . They were £10 each years ago and took time to come on a back order . I bought a £3 tube of thread lock and it does the trick . Give it a try .

I may try this. 50 cycles have come up with an offer of a loan C8 and a collect / return however with a threat that I will pay £100 if a manufacturer's fault not found.

I will pay my bike shop to get an independent opinion on whether the frame is faulty. Have thrown enough money already at this without people starting all that with me.

Bike doesn't work recurring fault all steps taken per instructions from dealer at my own time and expense. Now threats of courier bills unless 50 cycles find a fault. Not interested - sorry. I have no confidence right now that I will get a truthful diagnosis so I think I need an independent opinion first and use that to make sure the appropriate fix is sorted at the appropriate person's cost.

Well fed up with these guys - never again, sorry. If it's no goodwill and trust of a customer who has been so co-operative and willing over all these months to take the bike back and fix whatever is wrong - that has been wrong from the start - then after-sales quality is good as worthless.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

I may try this. 50 cycles have come up with an offer of a loan C8 and a collect / return however with a threat that I will pay £100 if a manufacturer's fault not found.

I will pay my bike shop to get an independent opinion on whether the frame is faulty. Have thrown enough money already at this without people starting all that with me.

Bike doesn't work recurring fault all steps taken per instructions from dealer at my own time and expense. Now threats of courier bills unless 50 cycles find a fault. Not interested - sorry. I have no confidence right now that I will get a truthful diagnosis so I think I need an independent opinion first and use that to make sure the appropriate fix is sorted at the appropriate person's cost.

Well fed up with these guys - never again, sorry. If it's no goodwill and trust of a customer who has been so co-operative and willing over all these months to take the bike back and fix whatever is wrong - that has been wrong from the start - then after-sales quality is good as worthless.

Alex,

In my opinion the bikes out of the derby cycles factory are very good, they are very reliable IF SET UP PROPERLY BY THE DEALER. Having dealt with bikes from the German manufacturer for many years, they are considerably better than others.

A real shame that you have lost faith in 50 cycles, they used to be very good, however as many companies become too big for their boots, the time spent setting bikes up is shortened. We have had a few instances of diagnosing bikes from the company, where the bikes have not been set up properly or have been affected by shipping damage.

Also in no way at all pay £100 'if a manufacturer's fault not found' sounds like they have had ample times to sort it out. Don't give in, and definitely don't hand over any more cash..

Really they should be offering you a totally new (well set-up bike) as a replacement, seeing the amount of trouble it sounds like you have had.

My advice would be to go to a good trusted independant bike shop that know what they are doing to get the bike set up properly, providing its not too late and the damage may have been done. However these parts can be replaced.

I honestly think with a proper set-up you could continue with many more years out of your current ebike.

Shame your not round the corner as I would offer to take a look my self. Although its not one of my bikes, the priority would be to get your bike functioning properly.
Cant stand an un-happy ebiker due to no fault of their own!..

Regards
Martin

 

[103Alex1]

50 Cycles have called me and assured me that they did not intend for their approach to be construed the way it came across and have also undertaken one way or another to get this sorted. I am hoping now this will be the case.

Nonetheless, I am going to get the bike looked at by LBS as gesture of goodwill. I think it is important for us all to have the view of another professional at this stage before they incur any costs or I am involved in stripping the bike of accessories and packaging up for return to them. It's a 15 minute job up the road for the bike to be examined on Friday and regardless of who is technically liable to take the bike back I think that is the fairest and most sensible approach on all fronts to make sure we are all properly informed before taking those next costly steps, whoever is picking up the tab.

 

[103Alex1]

Back from the LBS. Very interesting. I set the bike up last night exactly how I always do after latest wheel slip. Had a long chat with the chief mechanic and explained the whole background, problem and circumstances. He agreed to give my setup a thorough checking out in terms of tightening torques, wheel alignment, gear setup and alignment and also brake setup. Also to check the frame geometry with their tool for that.

Verdict was :

- He could find nothing at all wrong with the way I set it up including torque used to tighten axle nuts (reassuring !)

- There is nothing wrong with the frame geometry - it is absolutely spot on

- The chain is in good order and the tightness of 1cm play is appropriate especially on a bike where the motor drives through the gears. In my experience, a further 1cm play results in speed drop of nearly 1.5mph in higher gears on the flat so this is essential for the proper performance of the bike to be maintained - notwithstanding what is stated in Kalkhoff's manual as to tolerances.

So he carried on and investigated everything which might feasibly be causing the slip not otherwise checked to date at my request. This is most likely a mechanical issue and not an eBike issue after all, unless the design cannot cope with being ridden under load (highly unlikely).

The frame is very strong and it is true - as you'd expect from Derby Cycles. This is not the issue. He did find the following :

- The drive side replacement (outer) washer sent by 50 Cycles and swapped over within last 50 miles was worn. This was replaced by a different washer by LBS without so much wear.

- The wheel was somewhat out of true. This was trued and a couple of spokes tightened up

- The bike was set up 'spot on', back to how it was when I delivered it

- There was a lot of material on the inner interface between hub and frame. Like so :





LBS felt the only thing they could think might be causing the problem was that this material was inhibiting the proper grip of steel on aluminium. But that is just a guess. So they cleaned out the hub (echoing RoadieRoger's suggestion) and reset everything.

They also suggested I might try using removeable threadlock next time the axle nuts are tightened up again like RoadieRoger said ! However mentioned that the axle nuts did not look as if they were damaged in any way so this ought not to be necessary.

All in all it is still rather perplexing but possibly illustrates how sensitive these systems are to the gripping parts being in perfect nick !

It is too early to tell whether this will resolve my problem but the next step is probably for me to take the bike for a long ride to see how it holds up. If it does hold up I will be relieved as bottom line is I don't really want to be sending bikes back and forth with pitlocks to be removed, boxing up, likely loss of use of my rack with click-fix rack bag, removal of accessories and pedals etc. etc. Plus I like my bike (and always have done) and only want to be able to use it for what I bought it for without it playing up like it has been. We shall see.

Nonetheless, I think brand new washers should be procured and installed as running on a less worn still used drive side washer is a temporary fix that possibly won't last as long as it ought to.

 

[superDove]

It is great to see dealers offering loan bikes during warranty repairs. I sold my first ebike over this issue. the repairs to the bike were under warranty but there was a collection cost of £70. The dealer being an hour journey away but very simple to get to by train it was cheaper for me to take the bike up there on a morning when work was quiet. I left my bike with them for two weeks once waiting for repair and for an opportunity for me to go up and collect it. When I got there the bike wasn't ready so I made a return journey a week later. I only take one day off work a week and resented the travel but money was too tight at the time and it was cheaper to do that than keep paying £70. Over a six month period the bike was unrideable more times than it was rideable and I'd had enough and sold the conversion kit.
If you are using the bike for work and you do not want to use a car it seems the choice is to either have a backup ebike ready to roll or, if you can, have a route by public transport recce'd for when the inevitable happens.
At the moment my compromise is to use a folding bike that I can take on public transport for when the weather gets really bad, I'm carrying an injury or I want to go further afield. The compromise is that I am travelling light and not carrying all the gear that would make my working day more efficient and enjoyable.
I'll be interested to hear more from those people without a car that are using their ebikes as their main mode of transport for work and how they get round this.

 

[Cyclezee]

I'm deviating from your original post somewhat, but Alex did mention a cargo bike and wondered if the offerings that we have might be of interest.

We have in stock the eZee powered Yuba el Mundo with a load capacity of 200Kg and the newest model from eZee the Expedir GTS and LTS utility bikes with a load capacity of 150Kg. Our first delivery of the Expedir arrives next week.

Yuba el Mundo at the Eden Project​

eZee Expedir LTS Utility Bike​

eZee Expedir GTS Utility Bike​

 

[Kudoscycles]

In an ideal world all bikes would be perfect and never go wrong. Sadly this is not realistic and it seems that even high end German assembled bikes do also experience problems-it seems that the sophistication and complexity of the systems on expensive bikes is balanced by the simplicity of the cheaper bikes,so that both have equal warranty implications.
Every cost borne by a supplier ultimately is paid for by the consumer. To collect a bike and resend,to send out a replacement bike and recollect is about £80.00 total cost,to a smaller ebike supplier that could be £120.00.
There is pressure from the internet/ebay sales for ebikes to cost less and the industry is responding by selling bikes at best value,I am sure we would all like our ebikes to be cheaper,if we dialled in the costs of a substitute bike that would just increase the costs,for everyone.
Kudos look at each situation in a fair way-if a customer has a problem we use our experience to talk him through solutions,that cures 90% of faults,usually sensor problems. If that fails we try to involve a local dealer,which emphasises how important local help can be. If that fails we collect the bike back to base,maybe 1 in 50 that happens.
If the return to base is the owners fault (this is often when bikes have been fiddled with to cheat the restrictor or adaptions diy added),we repair the fault and charge the collection and delivery at cost price,if the fault is a manufacturing fault,no charge is made.We err on the side of the customer in situations which are difficult to determine,compromise is usually well received and most are pleased to get the experts to fix their bike.
It is difficult to have a written down procedure as every circumstance can be different but I know of no circumstance that the consumer was unhappy with Kudos's customer service-I suspect that most of the better ebike suppliers have similar attitudes and service.
But to issue a replacement bike whilst repairs are ongoing is just not realistic and I think most would not expect it,the cost involved is probably the lions share of the profit in a mid range priced ebike.
Trust that honestly answers the thread.
KudosDave

 

[103Alex1]

Managed to run my bike for 10 miles since going in to LBS. Still only 1cm play on the chain so fingers crossed their cleaning out the hub and fitting a less worn washer on the drive side might have done the trick. Chain tension of about 0.5-1cm vertical play had always been lost after this distance previously. Perhaps the replacement washers I was sent were themselves worn or the issue was on the hub side, or a bit of both.

Hope to do a few more miles tomorrow but the weather's not looking promising for a long ride. Will be good to finally get the 2012 software updated - it's nearly May already ! There's only one device to go around for customers who can't get their bikes in to the workshop - and if people hang on to it all others suffer the consequences of their delays. However I am promised I am next on the list for sending the device out now so with luck next week will see this sorted too.

It's great to see electrifying cycles and Crank Cycles Ltd. properly supporting their buyers with loan bikes and collect / deliver. Premium bikes are often bought by people who need reliability. Fewer well-made bikes will need to go in under warranty (you would hope only a very small number with higher end bikes) and therefore the associated costs of keeping customers mobile are spread across the profit margin in all sales. Something which likely can't be matched on bikes with a higher recall rate or prone to widespread issues with controllers etc. - or cheaper substitutes. So these dealers are putting their money where their mouth is as to the quality of the bikes they sell and after-sales service.

The eBike aspects of my own purchase have been problem-free. The issues I have personally had have been mechanical, to do with the wheel setup. An incongruously sensitive aspect of what's otherwise, confirmed by LBS, a pretty bomb-proof frame with very reliable components. I guess every bike has its sensitive spots - but the impact of getting these readily understood so they can be accommodated / managed and functionality sustained can be significant - as it has been in my case. I've now had an independent professional mechanic confirm that my setting up the wheel on replacement (a basic user routine maintenance issue on any bike) is correct and therefore the problems I've had can't fairly be attributed to a "DIY factor" or lack of reasonable skill. Therefore, from a buyer's perspective, I've fulfilled my side of the bargain and had this independently confirmed.

Despite kind offers, nothing has been touched on the bike in terms of mods to electrics or bike (other than mounting standalone accessories / fitting appropriate tyres and tubes for riding conditions and swapping pedals). Deliberately - as it's under warranty. The bike is also regularly cleaned, chain lubricated and service schedule adhered to. A user cannot reasonably do any more.

On a premium new bike purchase, especially if you are relying on the bike for transport, what matters is the outcome - having a properly functioning bike available - preferably the one you bought for as many days as possible ! - for at least a year's use. You shouldn't have to buy a 2nd bike as a backup if you buy a premium bike ... you paid more than double for it to begin with. That's a large chunk of your willingness to pay and so dealer terms matter a great deal.

With lower margin dealer-sold eBikes then yes, you run a greater risk of being left high and dry. With self-build bikes if you can learn to build / fix / maintain then with help of forums like this you are at least empowered to help yourself. Given the costs are often so much lower (once you've shelled out for tools), a 2nd bike is also more realistic as a back-up option. Personally went down that route only on a bike for use in a place I won't be completely dependent on it daily, as at a push I can prevail on someone for transport for a reasonable time until I (call d8veh and ..) hopefully fix it .

 

[103Alex1]

I'm deviating from your original post somewhat, but Alex did mention a cargo bike and wondered if the offerings that we have might be of interest.

We have in stock the eZee powered Yuba el Mundo with a load capacity of 200Kg and the newest model from eZee the Expedir GTS and LTS utility bikes with a load capacity of 150Kg. Our first delivery of the Expedir arrives next week.

I've considered them several times, - yes. Especially when trying to load up the MTB with even the necessaries, for which it's extremely limiting ! Couple of things put me off - the limitations on what the bike's suitable for (wouldn't want to really ride one for anything other than fulfilling the basic slogging stuff about needs) and the price (so expensive I couldn't afford a 2nd (i.e. 3rd) eBike - my 2 bikes will be living over 150 miles apart so won't be substitutes).

With sufficient funds available would ideally have 2 bikes in one place, especially as load carrying is in the equation for a few months. Sadly funds don't permit and trying to set funds aside to get a reasonable car again (have decided for sure that a car-free life isn't going to be sustainable indefinitely !) so ideally need to have a full-sized bike that's comfortable to ride with a proper sturdy rack and frame that's a good all-rounder - and preferably that's fun to ride too. Basically, like what I have.... running smoothly !

 

[Jonah]

Alex,

We have a service unit at Bike Higher in North Devon. I would be happy to meet you half-way if you fancied a ride up towards us - and I could ride down towards you. Alternatively, I am planning a circular ride between Newquay and Mevagissey sometime soon and we might pass close to you. It only takes 5 minutes to update the software.

 

[103Alex1]

Jonah

That's a kind thought - but the Agattu does not live down Devon way .. it isn't powerful enough to enable me to deal with the hills down there and is impractical to take backwards and forwards on public transport together with my gear (basically why I built the other bike to stay there). The Agattu lives many miles further North and East .

 

[halfer]

Just posting to offer some sympathy, Alex: I've had the same with a previous bike. Several months of riding on poor performance, and nearly two months of not having the bike at all. The lengthy absence was due to a mix of having repairs done by a LBS, and then by the distributor twice, with a couple of communication problems thrown in! It's worth bearing in mind that whilst having local work done can be more convenient, it can then raise the problem of who to hold responsible if it still doesn't work.

I'm entirely reliant on a bike too - I've been car-free for around 2.5 years, and I plan for it to stay that way. Hopefully you can find a solution to your bike reliability woes so that you do don't need to go to the added expense of buying a "backup car" - sounds like you've taken a financial hit enough already.

With KudosDave's useful views about profitability in mind, it seems to me that the higher-end brands could differentiate themselves by offering a loan bike - even an unpowered one, at a stretch - and this thread shows that some are willing to. Thus, people choosing primarily to minimise cost take two risks: one, that relatively low-quality components will fail earlier, and two, that they will have to bear the cost and inconvenience of arranging alternative transport during downtime. Admittedly, there's a limit to the number of spare bikes a shop can afford to hold: if several people need repairs done at the same time, not everyone can have a spare.