Cytronex kit or alternative?

[Pedalo]

Hello Mark,

It's good to see you back posting again. As a previous happy Cytronex owner I've been watching and waiting for news of your new kit with interest. While the Tongxin motor does have a reputation for being a bit flaky, I agree that it does offer something unique in terms of low noise and low resistance. I never had any problems with my Cytronex which did about 3000 miles before I sold it. I did break a Tongxin in my DIY Brompton build after only 800 miles though...

Regarding your comment a few posts up where you state that the motor has seen many changes over the last couple of years, are you saying that Tongxin have been gradually tweaking it to improve reliability?

Regards,

 

[Mark/Cytronex]

Hello Pedalo

Thanks for that.

We take every motor apart before they are fitted to a bike, check and if necessary change parts, grease and add some of our own sealing. Over time we have noticed a number of changes internally and this was confirmed when we met the manufacturer last Autumn. Also there is more than one factory now producing these motors. My own motor had done 7,100 miles when I retired it for the new bike I am testing. The motor was still going strong, but I should have changed some of the bike components (the front chain rings, chain and rear cassette) about 2,000 miles ago.

How the motor is controlled is also important, not over torqueing the drive at low speed for example. We have now accumulated a great deal of experience which is of course being incorporated into the kit.

I can only say we have achieved very good reliability and if we had not we wouldn't even consider including the motor in our kit, it would simply not be worthwhile.

Of course different people are looking for different things in an electric bicycle, for Cytronex it is vital that the assistance does not detract from the bike to which it is fitted, whether the power is on or off. We have seen no other motor that can achieve this in our opinion, but rest assured if and when it comes along our electronics will support it.

Regards,

Mark

 

[RobinC]

Hi Mark,

Would you say the motors are getting better or just different?

Obviously you have accumulated enough experience to fix minor niggles before they cause problems.

It will be interesting to see what Brompton use if/when their rumoured project appears.

I have a DIY Tongxin project, which only gets some attention when I have spare time, so it is mostly just a collection of bits & components. I should stick with the KISS philosophy but I keep dreaming up new bells & whistles to slow progress...

Regards,
Robin

 

[Pedalo]

It will be interesting to see what Brompton use if/when their rumoured project appears.

Brompton look to be using ultramotor:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/7346-new-brompton-electric-kit.html?

 

[jerrysimon]

Brompton look to be using ultramotor:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/7346-new-brompton-electric-kit.html?

Pedalo that's not Brompton it is another solution being proposed by the Electric Wheel Company who already provide the existing "nano", which as we all know is a rebadged Tongxin.

Brompton still seem to have the details of thier eBrompton under wraps

Regards

Jerry

 

[Pedalo]

Pedalo that's not Brompton it is another solution being proposed by the Electric Wheel Company who already provide the existing "nano", which as we all know is a rebadged Tongxin.

Brompton still seem to have the details of thier eBrompton under wraps

Regards

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Sorry I should have made it more clear. About 3 posts down in that thread there is a link to an ultramotor blog in which they say they are working on a system for Brompton. I quized Mark from Ultramotor about it at the time but unsurprisingly he wasn't prepared to give away any more!

 

[jerrysimon]

Ah interesting Pedalo I did not see that

"Ultra Motor is a UK based company, not only manufacturing our own range of electric bicycles, the A2B, but also developing complete e-bike systems for the likes of Brompton and Reebok with more to come…."

Regards

Jerry

 

[NRG]

It was a simple question requiring a simple answer.... Instead I get no idea at all

Around about £900~£950 I guess Eddie if you take away the price of the base Cannondale from the Cytronex price.

 

[eddieo]

Around about £900~£950 I guess Eddie if you take away the price of the base Cannondale from the Cytronex price.

Thanks NRG, I mean at this stage not being able to give an approximate price, and any info on battery power makes you wonder dont it

 

[fishingpaul]

I've been mulling over the idea of adding some assist to my Dahon Cadenza 26" wheel folder just to help out when, like today, it's fairly windy and to enable me to extend my Sunday ride out.
I think Cytronex is probably the best option. I've put myself on their email list for when the kit comes out sometime this summer.
Recent postings on this forum have suggested the the motor they use is not the strongest and has reliability issues. I would appreciate it if members could please set out the advantages and the drawbacks of the Cytronex system.
Are there any other kits out there that would just take the sting out of hills and windy conditions?
I don't like the idea of a pannier battery and I am not wealthy.

I think i remember you having a quando in the past bert,i would have thought you would find the cytronex very under powerd up hills compared to the quando.

 

[alexk-il]

Do we really need the whole kit from Cytronex?

There is no way I would be spending £900 for any kit when there are so many other kits around.

Anyway, no-hills are celling Cytronex spare parts. Would it be possible to buy a Cytronex wheel and hub from them and to use it with a generic battery/controller/LCD?

Thanks
Alex

 

[flecc]

There is no way I would be spending £900 for any kit when there are so many other kits around.

It's a normal price for a good quality kit though.

The Heinzmann, BionX and eZee kits are all from £850 upwards, to well over £1000. It's either the Suzhou Bafang motor or Chinese direct drive motor based ones that are much cheaper, often in part due to shorter life poor quality batteries being included.
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[alexk-il]

It's a normal price for a good quality kit though.

The Heinzmann, BionX and eZee kits are all from £850 upwards, to well over £1000. It's either the Suzhou Bafang motor or Chinese direct drive motor based ones that are much cheaper, often in part due to shorter life poor quality batteries being included.
.

Hi flecc,

You are the forum veteran and I don't intend argue with facts you present. You obviously know much more than a newbie which I am.

However if we talk about emotions, I just don't feel like paying circa £1000 for a rebranded Chinese kit when I can buy the similar Bafang/Toxing/Dapush motor from Germany/China/US at £250 (+ £200 for a generic battery). I may accept 30-50% premium for high quality Japanese or European/US products with a good warranty, but 200-250% premium is too much for me.

By the way, the life cycle of Cytronex battery is only 250 charges.
Cytronex Water Bottle Battery --- Cytronex - The UK's leading electric bike, so I am not sure that it is indeed much better than some noname alternatives. Of course it is piece of art if you consider its stealthiness.

Anyway, it looks to me that a generic controller should be able to push this Cytronex wheel without problems. Is my understanding correct?

Cheers,
Alex

 

[flecc]

I agree that buying the components is cheaper, but the ones I mention aren't just rebranded Chinese designs or even manufactured there necessarily. Heinzmann is German through and through, and BionX is Canadian designed. eZee, whose principals are not Chinese have their own motor, having given up the SB products they used to use at one time. I only made the observation to show that £900 isn't outrageous in today's marketplace, for those who want a complete quality one package kit with a good range of options. The cheaper kits don't compare in these respects.

The Cytronex motor is a Tongxin Nano roller drive one which can run on Tongxin's own controllers or other sensorless ones of course. The Cytronex main claim to fame is their unique push button control system which has changed over time, plus the bottle battery of course.

The 250 charge cycle life is probably related to range on the tiny 4.5 Ah capacity. They may feel that hardly any range loss is acceptable, but the good quality cells they use will probably be good for 400 charges like any good NiMh cells. But of course the typical 20 mile range could easily be well under 10 miles by then due to the capacity loss, and the increased cell internal resistance would be causing performance loss as well.
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[alexk-il]

The Cytronex motor is a Tongxin Nano roller drive one which can run on Tongxin's own controllers or other sensorless ones of course. The Cytronex main claim to fame is their unique push button control system which has changed over time, plus the bottle battery of course.
.

Exactly. The Nano kit with more powerful and more expensive battery costs £665, so Cytronex will be targeting a niche market if their price would be higher than that. For the DYI maniacs, there would be almost no advantage to use either one of them when there are other Chinese kits with a quality similar to Nano's (Vitenso, for example).

By the way, these guys are selling BionX at $543. Is it a joke or did they miss a thousand bucks on the quote?
BionX PL-350 Intelligent Bike System Kit at Rememberdelaware.com

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Cyclezee]

By the way, these guys are selling BionX at $543. Is it a joke or did they miss a thousand bucks on the quote?
BionX PL-350 Intelligent Bike System Kit at Rememberdelaware.com

Cheers,
Alex

Hi Alex,
I think you will find there is an error on that website and the actual cost of a complete 350w BionX kit they are supplying is $1963.95 plus shipping, import duty and Vat.

Well over double the price of an eZee kit sourced from the UK.

 

[flecc]

I think it's the way they've presented it:

Sale Price:
$543.95 - $1,963.95

They probably mean the kit ranges from $543.95 for just the motor in a rim to $1963.95 for the complete kit of all the parts they list. The drop down options box, although also confusing, does throw further light. Whoever put this ad together seemingly has a muddled mind.

The 10 Ah BionX battery alone is well over $1000.
.