Cytronex Bikes

[Xcytronex]

'E-bike riders are a completely unknown, untested and untraceable group with nothing known or tested about their mental and physical competence. They are not insured to protect others interests and in the UK they can be as young as 14 years. Elsewhere there is no lower age limit. As such they cannot be let loose on unrestricted vehicles. Since bicycles are accepted to be safe for anyone, restricting to bicycle like performance makes sense and is consistent.'

All of the above .
However it is ILLEGAL to use any ebike with a a top end speed of 17.5 mph on public highways.
It is LEGAL to drive a motor vehicle capable of 70 + mph----it is ILLEGAL to use this capability.
Should the ROAD ILLEGAL[legal in every other sense] ebike be enabled for registration / tax / insurance etc it can be ridden LEGALLY -providing a motorcycle type crash helmet is worn.

 

[Spornofthedevil]

Numerous posts on here if you do a search about exceeding the legal requirements.

Why not start with one of the cheaper legal kits NRG linked to, especially if you want to use it to commute too and from work. I started with one of these kits and have not looked back. It transforms your daily commute by car, if that is what you are doing.

Ps here is a link to my first kit, one of the Alien ones listed.

Regards

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I see you're from Cambridge - hello! That's where I am, well in Papworth now but I grew up in Waterbeach and Fen Ditton.

I've just finished reading your bike build post, a great read - definitely glad I read it before purchasing anything. I've already measured the forks, but didn't even think to check that they are tapered. I've just taken a quick look at my bike with a tape measure, it's about 101mm - very close. I'll try to attach a few pics to this post...


Forks with the wheel in place


Forks measured


The bike

Definitely very close, but looking at yours I think it should be OK. Any thoughts? The other thing I've not really considered, the forks are carbon fibre - do you or anyone else think that might be an issue?

I've just spotted the Heinzmann kit, I like the ruck sack option for storing the battery as I'll be carrying a laptop every day anyway - £1400 for the kit. Is it really worth the premium over some of the other kits I've been looking at? I don't think I can justify the money at this stage.

After talking with you guys, I'm more tempted to go with one of the more economical kits.

How have you found yours, as I guess you've had it over a year now?

How far will it realistically go with a reasonable amount of input?

I'm going to be travelling 22miles each way to work! I don't mind buying a second battery if needed and can charge at work.

Do the more economical kits last well? Do the batteries hold their charge as long as something like the Heinzmann?

Cheers,
Jay

 

[Spornofthedevil]

As an ex cytronex rider I can agree with what Flecc says. I am a bit confused that you would even be considering a 1000w system at the same time as the cytronex. The two are so far apart - the cytronex being the nearest thing to a unpowered bicycle as you can get - even more so than the panasonic bikes in my opinion. In comparison to the 10aH panasonics the range is not as far as the raw figures suggest.

I'm not seriously considering the 1000w system, I think it was just the petrol head in me thinking it would be a lot of fun. Having sat and seriously considered it, I don't need the extra weight and blatant illegality of something like that. I don't doubt that it would be a lot of fun though and if I ever get back into mountain biking I think it might be something I'd consider for off-road.

Cheers,
Jay

 

[Spornofthedevil]

Although the chances of being stopped are very small, the consequences could be serious. You'd basically using an unregistered, unlicenced and uninsured vehicle on the road. Among the penalties for that can be confiscation and destruction of the bike and a driving ban, enforced on any current or future licence.

If the stop was in connection with your colliding with someone and seriously injuring or killing them, the seriousness could escalate, even to the point of a prison sentence.

As said, the chances of any of these happening are miniscule, but it's as well be aware of how bad things could get.
.

Many thanks for you input, I guess it's a bit of a grey area with bikes like the A2B. I'm definitely going to try and stick to something fairly sensible, but I would like the option of a go faster button like the A2B has.

Cheers,
Jay

Edit: Ah, I should have read your newer post before posting this! thanks for clearing the issue up. I guess the go faster button is out of the question if I want to keep legal - which I would definitely prefer to do.

 

[HarryB]

I'm not seriously considering the 1000w system, I think it was just the petrol head in me thinking it would be a lot of fun. Having sat and seriously considered it, I don't need the extra weight and blatant illegality of something like that. I don't doubt that it would be a lot of fun though and if I ever get back into mountain biking I think it might be something I'd consider for off-road.

Cheers,
Jay

It is not the illegality of it so much as the difference in function. The cytronex is a fantastic bike but so far removed from most hub powered ebikes with peak powers of 600-800 watts. It is a delicate little thing that rewards you with a great sporting ride - but you have to put the effort in. It is not without its problems - neither the motor or the controller are particularily robust but still a great bike. Sounds like the new wisper or current ezee would suit you - I don't think the battery position is as good though.

 

[Spornofthedevil]

It is not the illegality of it so much as the difference in function. The cytronex is a fantastic bike but so far removed from most hub powered ebikes with peak powers of 600-800 watts. It is a delicate little thing that rewards you with a great sporting ride - but you have to put the effort in. It is not without its problems - neither the motor or the controller are particularily robust but still a great bike. Sounds like the new wisper or current ezee would suit you - I don't think the battery position is as good though.

To be honest I wasn't aware it would be that much different to the hub powered bikes, I guess part of the reason I posted about it on here. I like the idea and I think I'm still going to drive the 120 miles to try one, but I'm now thinking it might be a bit much doing 44miles daily on the bike. I'm also a little put off by the older battery technology.

 

[NRG]

A 44mile round trip is not something I'd like to do on a daily basis, it's quite an undertaking....as far as legality is concerned it's worth noting that 99% of all ebikes are in reality 'illegal' capable of producing more than 250w continuously with some ease.

 

[flecc]

To be honest I wasn't aware it would be that much different to the hub powered bikes, I guess part of the reason I posted about it on here. I like the idea and I think I'm still going to drive the 120 miles to try one, but I'm now thinking it might be a bit much doing 44miles daily on the bike. I'm also a little put off by the older battery technology.

This mileage is much too much for the Cytronex really. The reason for their use of NiMh is that they have much
better discharge characteristics than lithium batteries when in small capacities. They did experiment with various
lithium types when developing the Cytronex concept but unsurprisingly, none could deliver adequately from a
small size battery. The small battery was integral to the concept of a very light e-bike that performed like a
normal bike.
.

 

[HarryB]

To be honest I wasn't aware it would be that much different to the hub powered bikes, I guess part of the reason I posted about it on here. I like the idea and I think I'm still going to drive the 120 miles to try one, but I'm now thinking it might be a bit much doing 44miles daily on the bike. I'm also a little put off by the older battery technology.

I think are right and would struggle to do 44 miles a day on any bike, electric bike or otherwise - it is quite a long time to be sitting in that position. I do 20 and that is more than enough. It is well worth the trip to meet Mark and his team. I was really taken by the bikes after the test ride and money no object would have one for the fun of it. Don't worry about the battery technology as the battery was never a problem (and was quite cheap to replace). In many ways NiMH have some advantages over the Li-ion batteries.

 

[Spornofthedevil]

I think are right and would struggle to do 44 miles a day on any bike, electric bike or otherwise - it is quite a long time to be sitting in that position. I do 20 and that is more than enough. It is well worth the trip to meet Mark and his team. I was really taken by the bikes after the test ride and money no object would have one for the fun of it. Don't worry about the battery technology as the battery was never a problem (and was quite cheap to replace). In many ways NiMH have some advantages over the Li-ion batteries.

I do also have the option of putting the bike in the car, driving to the nearest park and ride and then cycling the rest of the way. That should bring it down to around 12 miles each way. I was going to do that first and then after a few weeks try the full distance.

I think I now know what I'll be saving for if cycling works out for me!

CUBE EPO

I have to say though, your Emotion Sport Max is an extremely close second! What do you think to it?

 

[HarryB]

Yes I have seen the cube before - no idea about price or weight etc. My bike is great but I would probably go for the pro-connect disc at the moment as it looks like better value for a commuter bike. When I bought mine the cheapest disc kalkhoff was £2495 so the £1850 looks good value now.

 

[eTim]

Got a PM from SpornoftheDevil, so will post a reply for the benefit of the thread.

As far as a Cytronex goes, it really is a low powered assist system whereby the rider should really be providing around 50% effort or more, although this is not strictly necessary. It is a bike that you can grow into, so you could start off relatively unfit, letting the battery and motor take the strain and over a period of time, build up the mileage using less motor assist and more legwork until you are riding longer distances with the battery lasting longer. This is true for all ebikes, but for me, I enjoy the fact that I am riding a 'normal' bike with some assist when I need it. Buy a spare, non-electric, front wheel and you can switch between a completely unassisted normal bike and an electrified normal bike in a matter of minutes. So you can be free from the electrification if you want to be. Recently I've noticed a few forum members buying non-electrified bikes once their fitness has returned to good levels, with a Cytronex, there is no need to buy a second bike, it really is two bikes in one.

I am a reasonably fit mid-40's bloke that likes a gadget, I like to bring my wife on rides with me, so I 'lend' a bike to her and she loves it. I think there is an image thing that she is happy with a lightweight road bike rather than a 20+Kg dedicated electric bike and I am happy with this also.

No-Hills is just down the road from me, so that is also handy.

It's probably been said already, but choose the system that suits you best, I know this isn't easy until you have tried a few bikes, so organise some long test rides if you need to. If your routes are going to be along VERY hilly terrain then consider the panasonic, especially if you are not very fit at the moment and MUST use those routes. Otherwise consider hub motor bikes.

That's about it, any more Q's: fire away

 

[OTH]

.... If your routes are going to be along VERY hilly terrain then consider the panasonic, especially if you are not very fit at the moment and MUST use those routes. Otherwise consider hub motor bikes. .......

This promotion of the Panasonic system for hilly country seems to be universally accepted wisdom.

I recently tested bikes fitted with this and a with ahub motor, both on the same hilly route.

I need to limit the amount of effort put in. It seemd to me that I was more likely to keep within my limit on the hub powered machine. I think this is because the crank system puts in assistance in proportion to the pedalling effort, whereas the hub motor gives assistance up to a selcted limit regardless of the effort put in, as long as you are pedalling.

Am I correct in concluding that a hub motor is more appropriate for me, even on hills, or do I just need to persvere with a crank system to appreciate its benefits on hills?

 

[NRG]

If you can't put the effort in with a Panasonic system then it's not for you, yes they climb hills but on moderate hills a hub motor will cope just as well and with less input from the rider.



-------------------------------------------------------
Posting from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

I recently tested bikes fitted with this and a with ahub motor, both on the same hilly route.

Am I correct in concluding that a hub motor is more appropriate for me, even on hills, or do I just need to persvere with a crank system to appreciate its benefits on hills?

Effectively a hub motor is in top gear all the time, so it's optimum climb speed is fixed fairly high and cannot be
changed. A crank motor has a full set of gears, so it's optimum climb speed can be lowered by changing down, as
on other motor vehicles. Power needed to climb is directly proportional to climb speed, half the speed needs
half the power for a given hill.

But power needed to climb is also directly proportional to hill steepness, twice as steep needs twice the power.
So as NRG says, as long as the hills are moderate, i.e. within the combined capability of the hub motor with less
effort from you than 40% of the total needed, the hub motor needs less of your effort.

When a hill is too steep for the hub motor's power at it's optimum climb speed to be 60% or more of total power
needed, a crank motor driving through the gears allows the change-down which leaves the rider with less to do.

Hub motors are generally more powerful since, as you see, they have to rely on brute force to climb. Crank drive
motors use cunning so can be lower powered. That's why hub motor bikes usually have much larger batteries
than the crank drive ones for similar ranges.
.

 

[OTH]

Thanks for the replies.

Reading your explanation, Flecc, I think I may have overplayed the higher gear = more effort from me = more assistance from the motor. Also, I may not have been too skilful in the use of the hub gears, remaining in a high gear when I changed down because I didn't ease off the pressure.

I should probably give the crank drive another try before choosing.

 

[flecc]

They definitely do take practice to get the best from them, and this puts them at a disadvantage on brief comparative trials.
.

 

[NRG]

Yes, I found the Panasonic very counter intuitive on test and you have to adapt if coming from a hub powered world. I think I've got the hang of it now, gear selection is important, get in the correct gear for the hill and let the cadence fall naturally if you tire or the hill steepens and as if by magic an invisible hand gives you a push to keep you moving....

 

[indalo]

I can endorse the comments by NRG. For a time, I thought there might be something wrong with my Panasonic-powered bike but I altered my technique with regard to hills just as NRG describes and the system lends a hand. Probably, a hub-powered bike would get up hills much quicker than I can but hey! Who's in a hurry?

Regards,
Indalo

 

[Spornofthedevil]

Many thanks for all the replies guys, I'm hoping to try the Cytronex & the E-motion Sport Max tomorrow. A fair bit of driving if I do try both, but I've not yet ridden a crank drive bike and want to try this before making a decision.

The only thing putting me off the Cytronex at the moment is range, but I've no doubt that I'll run out of battery at some point and the Cytronex just happens to be the best in this situation.

Thanks again.