Cyclotricity 250w front hub, what is it and what would be better?

[niggle]

The one I bought and fitted recently looks identical, externally, to the MXUS XF-07, but is it the same or a lesser copy? In which case would the XF-07 be any better, or should I be considering a BMP to pull myself and a trailer up the Cornish hills? I can only use a front hub or mid drive due to rear hub gears, would a mid drive be worth the extra £s? Or can I mod the current hub to get more grunt?

EDIT: my hub (I have rerouted cable since photo so it enters from below)

 

[wheeliepete]

You may be able to improve the performance of your existing hub by fitting a decent KT controller and LCD, but your battery needs to be able to supply the extra current. Do you know it's specs or have a link?

 

[niggle]

You may be able to improve the performance of your existing hub by fitting a decent KT controller and LCD, but your battery needs to be able to supply the extra current. Do you know it's specs or have a link?

I have the basic LED controller, so I guess a better LCD one will give me options, don't know what the controller is would have to open up the box and take a look. This is the battery, so yes a cheap one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36V-10A-Electric-Bike-Lithium-Battery-E-Bike-Battery-Pack-Lock-USB-Rechargeable/123797773670?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 I bought it for the Shirt circuit protection

 

[wheeliepete]

Hmm, I'm sorry to say I don't think you are going to be able to increase performance with that battery, it isn't really a good match with Cornish hills where you are pulling high amps for long periods. You really need a pack with quality branded cells and a BMS that can supply 30amps con. to get the best performance from what you have, then you have the scope to increase it. You have to look at the battery as the heart of your system and not just something to get the wheel spinning. It might be worth you looking at 48v for the terrain you are in. On the plus side, I see your battery has a 3 month return back policy, so it might be worth sending it back if you can and starting again.

 

[vfr400]

The motor alone doesn't change very much. It's the controller that decides how much power you get, and the battery has to be able to supply that power. Assuming that you have a 14A or 15A controller, you can increase your torque/power by about 20% by adding a blob of solder to the shunt in the controller. That doesn't cost anything.

 

[niggle]

Controller is a KT36ZWSR, maximum current 14A +/-1A

 

[vfr400]

Controller is a KT36ZWSR, maximum current 14A +/-1A

Take the end-plate off to see if the shunt is behind it waiting for a blob of solder. It should be on the left between the mosfets and the capacitors. They keep changing the layout of these controllers, so you might have to take all the screws out to expose the shunt if it's not there.

There are also lots of different software versions. On some of the older LCDs, you can turn the current up a couple of amps via parameter C5, but they've changed that on the latest ones, so that you can only reduce the current. You need the specific manual that came with your LCD to be sure what you have.

 

[niggle]

I have the very basic KT LED890, the manual that came with it was only a user manual. I found a full PDF on line somewhere but it doesn't function quite the same in some ways and in any case there are no C settings, only P settings.

 

[vfr400]

I have the very basic KT LED890, the manual that came with it was only a user manual. I found a full PDF on line somewhere but it doesn't function quite the same in some ways and in any case there are no C settings, only P settings.

Solder the shunt then.

 

[Sturmey]

The one I bought and fitted recently looks identical, externally, to the MXUS XF-07, but is it the same or a lesser copy? In which case would the XF-07 be any better, or should I be considering a BMP to pull myself and a trailer up the Cornish hills? I can only use a front hub or mid drive due to rear hub gears, would a mid drive be worth the extra £s? Or can I mod the current hub to get more grunt?

EDIT: my hub (I have rerouted cable since photo so it enters from below)

View attachment 32903

Hi. I had a 700/28inch 250w cyclotricity (from ebike direct) unrestricted, supplied with no display, just throttle only. It is a fast hub, 33km/hr wheel of the ground, useful power up to 28km/hr with full 36v battery. However, its not great on hills or against wind when compared to other slower 250w. I reckon my cyclotricity 250 is geared higher/higher rpm/fast winding and is probably a good buy for flat ground or where the rider has good legs.

 

[Nealh]

The Cylotricity internally probably isn't going to be geared much differently but expect the motor RPM was a faster wind 330 - 350rpm so this would have made it poorer at climbing .

 

[vfr400]

I know Cyclotricity used to use MXUS motors. If you want a bit more power, you can always turn up the current in the controller. It's the controller that's the biggest factor in how much power and torque you get from the motor, not the motor itself. Wheel size also has a direct effect. You get 92% of the torque with a 700C wheel and 130% from a 20" wheel compared with a 26" one.

 

[niggle]

I know Cyclotricity used to use MXUS motors. If you want a bit more power, you can always turn up the current in the controller. It's the controller that's the biggest factor in how much power and torque you get from the motor, not the motor itself. Wheel size also has a direct effect. You get 92% of the torque with a 700C wheel and 130% from a 20" wheel compared with a 26" one.

OK interesting. so why does my hub have 28" stamped on it, indicating there is some kind of difference between it and others designated for smaller wheels?

Obviously the first thing to try is the shunt mod as you suggest, my soldering skills are a bit iffy but it looks fairly straightforward on Youtube videos. Am I right that you should aim for no more than 20% of the total shunt length, including the verticals?

EDIT: on another thread you mention the risk of solder dripping down into the controller innards, I think I will try to reduce the risk by stuffing some rag in below the shunt.

 

[niggle]

One further question: do I need a throttle to use the extra power from the shunt mod? I am only using PAS ATM as a throttle won't fit on drop bars. Straight bars are 22.2mm thick, drop bars are 23.7ish plus get thicker and many become "non-round" once you get above the point where the brake levers clamp on. If I need a throttle I could probably use an accessory bar to mount one in a fairly convenient spot.

 

[vfr400]

28" and 26" motors are normally the same. I think the labels are more for the retailers and wheel-builders so they don't get them mixed up. À Most motors come in a range of different windings. Sometimes just two - one high speed for small wheels and one lower speed for big wheels. The Bafang BMP has a code stamped on it for the winding speed, and I've personally seen 9 different codes, so you can pick one to suit your exact requirements if you can find a supplier with the one you want. The MAC also has a wide range of windings.

Yes, approx 20% of the length, which normally means a blob on one of the upright legs. Keep the soldering iron in contact with the shunt the whole time. Keep it there until the solder becomes wet and fuses with the shunt. Make sure that the iron is fully up to temperature before starting.

Procedure: When the iron is up to temperature add a bit of solder to the tip to aid contact. Put the tip on the leg of the shunt and keep it there for maybe 5 secs or so to heat up the shunt. Keeping it there, add some solder between the tip and the shunt until there's enough to cover it. You can move it around with the tip, but try not to lose contact with it. When you can see that it's all melted in nicely, remove the iron and admire your work.

 

[Clive Belfield]

Hmm, I'm sorry to say I don't think you are going to be able to increase performance with that battery, it isn't really a good match with Cornish hills where you are pulling high amps for long periods. You really need a pack with quality branded cells and a BMS that can supply 30amps con. to get the best performance from what you have, then you have the scope to increase it. You have to look at the battery as the heart of your system and not just something to get the wheel spinning. It might be worth you looking at 48v for the terrain you are in. On the plus side, I see your battery has a 3 month return back policy, so it might be worth sending it back if you can and starting again.

Which batteries would you recommend wheeliepete?

 

[wheeliepete]

Which batteries would you recommend

Do you mean 18650 cells or ready made packs?

 

[Clive Belfield]

Do you mean 18650 cells or ready made packs?

Ready made packs that fit onto bottle cage. 36 volt.

 

[wheeliepete]

Ready made packs that fit onto bottle cage. 36 volt.

I'm not really the right person to ask about ready made packs, as I build my own. The only seller I have personal experience with is Yose Power from whom I bought a battery for a friends bike last year. I opened it up and it was well constructed with LG MH1 cells as advertised. They ship from the EU. Maybe start a new thread asking all members for advise.

 

[niggle]

28" and 26" motors are normally the same. I think the labels are more for the retailers and wheel-builders so they don't get them mixed up. À Most motors come in a range of different windings. Sometimes just two - one high speed for small wheels and one lower speed for big wheels. The Bafang BMP has a code stamped on it for the winding speed, and I've personally seen 9 different codes, so you can pick one to suit your exact requirements if you can find a supplier with the one you want. The MAC also has a wide range of windings.

Yes, approx 20% of the length, which normally means a blob on one of the upright legs. Keep the soldering iron in contact with the shunt the whole time. Keep it there until the solder becomes wet and fuses with the shunt. Make sure that the iron is fully up to temperature before starting.

Procedure: When the iron is up to temperature add a bit of solder to the tip to aid contact. Put the tip on the leg of the shunt and keep it there for maybe 5 secs or so to heat up the shunt. Keeping it there, add some solder between the tip and the shunt until there's enough to cover it. You can move it around with the tip, but try not to lose contact with it. When you can see that it's all melted in nicely, remove the iron and admire your work.

Really helpful post, thank you so much. Do I need to use a throttle to use the extra power?