Cycle helmet wearers are reckless

Caph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 29, 2008
440
11
Nottingham, UK
I am making a serious point about people having accidents, which you have avoided. Why do so many helmet wearers, you included, have these accident accounts? .
With regards that particular point, no I don't think wearing a helmet makes you more reckless. Remember, I said it was the accident I had when I wasn't wearing a helmet that got me wearing one all the time.

The only other accident I had was recently on black ice on an adverse camber on a downhill slope. It would have got me helmet or not. I didn't actually hit my head that time so the helmet wasn't needed. Hopefully my snow studs will put pay to those types of accident in future.

In fact I've never hit my head once since I started wearing a helmet religiously which makes me all the more certain that the first time I go out without it I'll come a cropper. It's the old lottery ticket syndrome!
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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Very good!

This is the article I was looking for, which supports my view that helmets not only make riders more likely to have accidents, but that they are far more likely to bang their heads when they do so.
Yes, the weight of evidence just from your links is quite conclusive Frank, and when added to the many other informed sources, its difficult to see how the helmet benefit argument can be sustained.

As I've replied above, I'm happy for those who feel safer wearing them, but just wish they would accept the logical, statistical and scientific validity of others not wearing them and stop the irritating promotion.
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Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
Hi flecc,

This is what we scientists refer to as "wriggling".:) I took your main point and demolished it.

Your essential claim was that if these things we were hearing were true, then a certain section of the population must be behaving irrationally. I showed that the outcome could be the result of rational decisions about when to wear a helmet.

As for the other point about individuals claiming helmets saved their lives, therefore we must all wear helmets, I agree. This is no more logical than some of the arguments that we should not wear them.

Nick

Apologies if I seem in an argumentative mood today - I'm stuck indoors with flu.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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With regards that particular point, no I don't think wearing a helmet makes you more reckless.
I haven't said because helmets were worn that caused the recklessness. On that I said this, saying "it may be":

"it may be that helmet wearing equally promotes a feeling of safety, leading to involuntary greater risk taking"

My opening point was that the accidents the helmet wearing promoters usually report were due to recklessness.
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Caph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 29, 2008
440
11
Nottingham, UK
I think cycle helmet wearers are deeply religious people who have faith that, in the absence of any credible evidence, a polystyrene box will protect them from injury.
If your head bangs hard off the ground, especially the curb, there's a good chance you'll do serious damage to yourself (possibly, God forbid, brain damage). If you're wearing a helmet there's a good chance you won't. I believe that's the main point of wearing a helmet, at least it's the main point why I do. It's not rocket science, just common sense.

Just get someone to stand behind you and give you a sharp tap with a heavy piece of concrete both with and without a helmet. You'll quickly learn the benefit then. In fact why don't we have a competition, I'll wear a helmet and you don't, then we'll see who can take the heaviest hit with the slab of concrete. I'd bet my house I'd win on account of you being ruled out due to being unconscious.

The point I'm making is that of course the helmet will absorb impact, and of course this is a good thing. To say that it will help you in a full on collision with a lorry is obviously pointless. It will help you up to a point, but it will help you. To say otherwise is plain silly.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Nick

Apologies if I seem in an argumentative mood today - I'm stuck indoors with flu.
You aren't argumentative at all Nick, it's just a contentious thread subject. :)

I'm really sorry to hear of your 'flu, this year's variety being very unpleasant, known since I got it when it first arrived. Hope it clears before long and the after effects disappear quickly.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I believe that's the main point of wearing a helmet, at least it's the main point why I do. It's not rocket science, just common sense.
But the real world facts as shown don't support that Caph, the stats showing increased deaths with compulsory helmet wearing, so by implication, there will probably be increased serious injuries too.

So the common sense is clearly wrong.
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Fecn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2008
491
2
Warlingham, Surrey
I did quite a lot of reading up on cycle helmets when I got my Agattu... I stumbled across that cyclehelmets.org site whilst I was trying to find a nice looking helmet and read pretty much everything on there, rather surprised by what I was reading - I was expecting it to be a cut & dry thing that helmets would inheritantly be safer.

Having read all of that site and a few more, it is now my understanding that the following are all contributing factors to cycle helmet safety...

The most damaging kinds (i.e. fatal) of head injuries are ones where the neck is twisted. A sharp blow to the head isn't actually that bad as the brain is well protected by the skull, and unless the skull is actually fractured then you'll most likely be OK. You scalp is actually able to move independantly of your skull and acts as a slippery layer which allows your skull to move underneath it, and this offers it a surprising amount of protection from angled impacts (such as banging your head on the kerb).

Cycle hemlets strap under your chin and increase the size the size of your head to by a couple of inches. This means that if you should catch your helmet as you fall then you are far more likely to suffer a neck-twisting injury than you would otherwise be without a helmet as your head has a larger diameter and any angular impact will have more of a twisting action on the neck. Wearing a cycle helmet makes you feel protected, which in-turn has a makes you inclined to go faster, but cycle hemlets are not really designed to protect you for any kind of high speed collision. If you go at 30mph headfirst into a wall/tree, your helmet is toast, and most likely, so is your head.

Given the head-diameter/nick-twist factor, there's a fair chance that a wooly hat is the safest of all, but nobody's done a proper study of that yet.

Most cycling fatalities are car-related, and in no small part related to how cars expect to behave on the roads. The more cyclists on the road, the more cycle-aware drivers are and the less likely an accident becomes. I believe that Australia had this happen after they introduced cycle helmet laws. The helmet law caused a reduction in the number of cyclists, which sort-of in turn cause an increase in the number of fatalities as motorists began to behave differently.

So.. to conclude this rather long winded post... my opinion is now as follows.

The healthy exercise you get on a bike significantly decreases your chance of an early death regardless of the accident risk. The more cyclists on the road, the safer it becomes. If wearing a helmet is going to make it less likely you'll cycle, then don't wear one. If wearing a helmet makes you more likely to cycle then wear one.

Personally, I go helmet free.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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That evidence on the ratio of cycling to car usage effect on accidents has been very clearly demonstrated in the leading cycling countries of Europe and now demonstrated in London during the large recent increase in cycling.

In every case the higher the proportion of bikes to cars, the lower the accident rate.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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You're a devious **** Mr. Flecc. :D I hope that's taken in the spirit intended?
Of course. :D

Though I know I read as intense and serious at times, there's always a very active sense of humour in the background and no pomposity.
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The Maestro

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2008
296
0
I personally don't wear a helmet often. I just don't like them much and can't be bothered with them. During these cold days its not really possible to wear one over most warm hats anyway.

I think they could offer some protection to the head in a minority of accidents such as those involving being hit by a motor vehicle but I can't imagine falling off and hitting my head on the road, in most situations. On the negative side I could see some increased potential for neck twisting if the helmet did take an impact and strangulation in some other situations, particularly to children cycling in the woods.

I also don't like being told what to do when it only concerns my own safety, I woudn't mind so much if given reasonable proof of effectiveness they made them compulsory for under 16s but as far as adults go, I think we can make up our own minds, and if the government want to get people to wear helmets they should try and convince people and let them make an informed decision.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Just out of interest do they keep your head warm?
I understand most don't, and don't protect from rain either, since they are mostly a trellis construction of ribs, open in between to allow for essential ventilation.

Some use them with a waterproof cover over them in rain, and this will also protect from direct wind chill.

There are also some all over shell helmets, fully covering the top of the head, and in some other countries variations exist. I've seen film of youngsters in Australia wearing full cover helmets almost like the German WW2 soldiers helmets covering the ears as well, but they must surely be uncomfortable in that country with it's many hot regions.
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Caph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 29, 2008
440
11
Nottingham, UK
I haven't said because helmets were worn that caused the recklessness. On that I said this, saying "it may be":

"it may be that helmet wearing equally promotes a feeling of safety, leading to involuntary greater risk taking"

My opening point was that the accidents the helmet wearing promoters usually report were due to recklessness.
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OK then, no I don't feel any safer wearing a helmet and no I don't ride differently. The thing that worries me about coming off my bike is that it is going to hurt, probably a lot, and I may end up sliding under traffic. The fact that in the back of my mind I'm aware that there is less of a chance of me suffering brain damage does not in any way mitigate my fear of getting hurt, a lot, by coming off my bike.

Some of us have had to commute in some pretty atrocious conditions this Winter and it has taken its toll on some of us. I appreciate that you wisely choose not to cycle in these -10C conditions in the dark down steep hills with black ice, but some of us have little choice if we still want to keep getting paid. We all seem to be taking every precaution possible, such as lowering tyre pressure and fitting studded tyres but unfortunately I'd only just been made aware of studded tyres a couple of days before my spill.

On that side note, and at the risk of going off at a tangent, I would like to thank all the members who have been posting helpul information about how to keep safe this winter. I've found it very helpful.

Back on topic, if I'd cracked my head one when I had my last spill I may well have mentioned that it saved me from sustaining worse damage. I wouldn't have eulogised about it but I would have mentioned it and it certainly wasn't as a result of me being reckless. Just a result of me having to get to work in appalling conditions.
 
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Caph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 29, 2008
440
11
Nottingham, UK
But the real world facts as shown don't support that Caph, the stats showing increased deaths with compulsory helmet wearing, so by implication, there will probably be increased serious injuries too.

So the common sense is clearly wrong.
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Please try the test mentioned in the post you replied to regarding get hit on the head by heavy concrete both with and without a helmet. You'll soon get the point. I personally wear my helmet because of my previous experience of falling off my bike and cracking my head off a paving slab when I was a lot younger. I'd prefer not to have to suffer that particular injury again irrepective of what the the statistics say. It could have been a lot worse and I count myself lucky. Leason learned the hard way.
 
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Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
I have the proverbial thick skull. In so many ways.

Having suffered numerous falls off my bike in my youth (I have the scars to prove it) I cant' ever remember banging my head. Plenty of nasty cracks on the noggin elsewhere though.

Anyway I found myself looking at cycle helmets in Halfords recently with a view to actually purchasing one :eek:

I'm starting to think they look quite cool :eek:

There again so does a wooly hat :rolleyes:

Freezing again this morning. Thank goodness I've still got hair :D
 

Barnowl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 18, 2008
954
1
Your head, your choice. Simple innit. I wear one when in heavy traffic and on heavy trails but don't bother for gentle cycle route rides.
Fair comment totally agree. I choose my routes and times carefully. If I cycled heavy trails and some of the busy A roads round these parts I'd wear a toast rack and full safety kit. I prefer to avoid (too scared) and I'm lucky enough to be able to.
I don't like the thought of legislation though and some PC pullling me over because I'm not wearing a helmet while cycling through the park.